To think that furlough at 80% is FAR too generous.....

[loveyouradvice]

I'm just interested about what others think... I think fine to do this for first three months but really do feel it should be down to 60% or 70% maximum by now....

People on 80% of salary, with no travel or expenses related to working away from home, are really not doing badly .... especially since so much less to spend your money on

It is everyone else I think is having a tough time - whether its kids not getting Free School Meals in holidays, or freelancers or those who've lost their jobs....

I would prefer the "pain" to be shared.... so if on furlough, yes lots of free time and yes, having to tighten your belt a bit....

Would it not be better to pay LESS in furlough - I'm thinking around 65% - and MORE to those who don't qualify but are having a very tough time financially..... ?

My partner is on NMW, he normally works 30 hours a week but his contract is for 25, so on furlough he only gets 80% of 25. We’re relying mostly on my student loan- if I was also a minimum wage worker on furlough, we’d be fucked.

Feeding the journo people

@SheepandCow

I’m not saying people on benefits or anyone else who’s struggling shouldn’t be equally supported. I’m simply responding to the OP’s suggestion that providing those furloughed with 80% of their salaries is “FAR too generous”.

To be fair, journalists have bills to pay too.

Please don’t say that OP!! It’s not generous- a 20% pay cut is not generous when you can not work!! He would be at work like he is every other year earning 100% if he could and that’s what he would much rather be doing too!! Our bills haven’t gone down 20%!!! We are struggling to even buy basic things like the kids school shoes-it’s crazy!! We have a mortgage to pay, unfortunately we don’t get things paid for us by way of benefits, we are proper working poor class so no, don’t say 80% is generous and hoping it gets cut further, we wouldn’t be able to cover costs!

Food bill has gone up, electric too- things have increased, wages decreased by 20%

Why not means test furlough payments? It doesn’t seem fair that overall household income is not taken into account. There are undoubtedly people who are doing well out of this, and great cost to all of us, as well as those who truly need it and for whom 80% is cutting it very very fine, if not making life impossible.

@BrummyMum1
It's one of my big issues (the disappeared safety net) so I tend to jump in on these threads. Sometimes a tad over enthusiastically and without reading everything properly. Sorry!

I interpreted OP as suggesting it's better to have a slightly lower amount for more people than a higher amount for less people. Obviously everyone should get enough - but if there absolutely had to be a choice between some getting nothing or more people getting a slightly lower amount, I'd go for the second option.

@Gcgjiut

Why not means test furlough payments? It doesn’t seem fair that overall household income is not taken into account. There are undoubtedly people who are doing well out of this, and great cost to all of us, as well as those who truly need it and for whom 80% is cutting it very very fine, if not making life impossible.

What would be the point in making it more expensive?

Means testing always makes things more expensive. It also adds in delays - the UC system is struggling to cope with the extra claimants so who would staff the means testing?

Basically furlough highlights the fact that our benefits system no longer provides a safety net.

This exactly.

I agree with you OP, and have since furlough was introduced - though not for the lowest paid, who definitely can't absorb any reduction - what I would like to see a 'minimum' so that people on minimum wage and thereabouts would continue to receive 100%, but the higher end would see a lower amount such as you suggest. 80% for higher earners, even with the cap of £2,500/m (£30k/pa), is far too generous, the state should not be paying such incomes.

In New Zealand MPs took a pay cut to do their bit for the Covid restrictions. Imagine if ours had done the same. We could put that money towards ensuring that no one struggles.

Yes, why not? Because people's utility bills, mortgage/rent and food are going to drop by the same percentage to match.
Let's heap more stress and worry on people, you know with winter being here and having the heating on more, not to mention using more electric.
Let's not even mention Christmas being round the corner.
Yes, why the hell not.
🤨

I kind of understand what you mean, My neighbour's, (married with 1 under school age child) have both been furloughed. He travels to the next city daily (when working) and travels to go to appointments, she's a receptionist in the local town. They have said how better off they are while being on furlough due to the fact the don't have petrol to pay, apparently a saving of around £300 a month and saving on child care around £500 a month, However, this isn't the case for every one. People who work for Minimum wage, one person/one parent household who rely only on their wage would struggle more. Furlough isn't means tested, so there is no way of knowing who needs it more than others.

Bottom line is that no one should profit from furlough. It should be a reasonable safety net but not more, as a society else simply cannot afford it. If done properly, means testing would save much more money than it costs.

I was in a shop today and overhead staff talking excitedly about who might be furloughed. Something is wrong if that is how it is viewed.

People are being furloughed due to government legislation effectively prohibiting them from doing their job. It would be immoral and unworkable for the government to effectively ban someone from earning their living and not financially compensate them. I do feel for those on low wages as many/most will not be able to absorb a 20% drop in income. However, that's not to say everyone on a higher income is any more able to. Plenty of people on £2500+ pcm do not have meaningful savings or enough disposable income to absorb a 20% cut either. Sure, some will save at least that on commuting costs but many will not. Means testing or individually assessing everyone would massively complicate the whole process and dramatically slow down the time it would take to get money to those affected.

Personally, as long as the government is intent on mandatory measures that shut businesses down and render employees unable to work I think the focus should be on ensuring those individuals are not thrown under the bus, regardless of how much they normally earn.

The situation is shit and there are no easy answers but turning against each other in the misguided belief that hordes of people are getting a free lunch is not the way forward.

@Gcgjiut

I was in a shop today and overhead staff talking excitedly about who might be furloughed. Something is wrong if that is how it is viewed.

And my nail technician was crying yesterday

1 adult furloughed and 1 flexibly furloughed and partly working from home/partly furloughed in a 1 bed flat with a young child and on less than 80% of a low wage (as no tips etc).

If household income is taken into account for eligibility for other benefits to treat this differently. We have to all remember that we will be paying for this. Money doesn’t come from nowhere.
The fact that some people are struggling doesn’t mean that distribution of public funds should not be strictly controlled. Brexit is around the corner as well. We need to be realistic and think about the long term.

Rather, there is no rational basis to treat this differently

@MorganKitten l didn’t see your replies actually. Was that a dipping in and out day a week / fortnight thing or actually properly working full time hours?

Shame on you op. I hope you remember this thread next time you really need life to give you a break.

@Gcgjiut

I was in a shop today and overhead staff talking excitedly about who might be furloughed. Something is wrong if that is how it is viewed.

For some, if they have other income or can live off 80% salary in the medium term it is a nice holiday, but I don't think there won't be many like that.

If I was furloughed we would just about manage it we really tightened our belts and if dh (self employed) had to stop working again we would really struggle, but with colleagues I would likely have the same yay! a free holiday small talk as I am not going to go into my finances with them.

@SimplyRadishing

I think it is madness they are continuing this and to do so at 80% is reckless.

We will be paying for generations.

We are nowhere near touching the recessions experienced in previous generations.

This proping up through quantative easing is disgraceful.

Hahaaa this is the worst recession on record, ever. In hundreds of years.

The drop in GDP in April alone was 20%. Throughout the whole financial crisis it was 4%. And that was the worst recession in many decades (since the 1930s).

At least make sure the comments you post are factual, please.

What I am yet to hear is what the Government intend to do to support those made redundant already because they announced the furlough extension so late (France and Germany and others announced in the summer that their schemes would continue into 2021 so that businesses could plan and wouldn't let staff go in the autumn). People who have lost their job already and aren't eligible for the new payments, but are effectively prevented from getting new jobs by this lockdown cannot meet their usual living expenses. Not a word from MPs on what they are doing for such people as far as I can see. Many will not be eligible for sufficient payments through universal credit to make the payments on their mortgages etc that they would meet themselves prior to the Government making their livelihoods illegal.

Remember at the start of first lockdown that it was speculated the government would force utility companies to give us payment holidays, councils to give us breaks, and basically get expenses down for people. Did they heck? Instead they just throwing magic money at people which they can continue to waste on ciggies booze etc...