AIBU to think I’ve been shafted by work?

[WhatACovidNightmare]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I've been on maternity leave and was due to go back part time but use some of my holiday allowance to get paid my full time salary. A lot of my holiday was carried over as they told me they were not able to pay my accrued holiday during my maternity leave as was planned.

As I was due to go back, my work (which has been significantly affected by Covid) said they couldn't pay my holiday pay (again) until the new year and would need to come back part time but on part time pay. Fine, it's only a couple of months and wanted to do my bit to help despite this not being something we had budgeted for.

I started back part time last week but now due to the latest lockdown I have been furloughed.

Now my work have said that I will be paid 100% of my part time hours (rather than the 80% furlough) but need to take the same amount of holiday days as I am having off. So essentially I'm having to take 10 days holiday but receiving 2 days pay. What’s extra annoying is that had I been getting my holiday pay as planned, my working hours wouldn’t have changed and I would have been eligible for furlough on my FT hours.

AIBU to think I’ve been totally shafted?

YABU - Covid is just a shitty situation, you’re being propped up by the taxpayer so should count yourself lucky. It’s a few days holiday and not worth souring relations and putting your neck on the chopping block for.

YANBU - it’s totally unreasonable for them to expect you to use your holiday in this way. This is money you are entitled to and time away from your family.

To add - I have worked there a very long time, was not given a generous maternity package (a couple of weeks over statutory) but they were flexible with my return date allowing me a bit of extra unpaid leave as my DC didn’t settle at childcare well.

Thanks if you got this far!

@HTH1

Unless I’m missing something, you’re essentially getting an extended maternity leave, fully paid at part-time salary. Lucky you!

But she's still on a full time contract and losing out on her annual leave accrued during maternity, and during furlough?

You’ve completely confused the situation by using the term “part time”.

It seems, I could be wrong because I’m finding this hard to follow, that you were going to be return as a full time worker but take a few days annual leave a week until you run out? If so, you were never part time in the true sense and should have never have used the term. If you have used this term with your employer, it’s no wonder they have done this.

I’m sorry if I’m wrong but I’m really confused.

I don’t see the argument that there is any detriment to you if your employer pays 20% of your annual leave and the rest is furlough money. It benefits your employer but doesn’t harm you.
However if your contract is for full time work and you are getting nil pay for two days a week then that is a clear detriment.
But your op says that you had agreed to come back part time on part time pay until the new year? If you did agree to that it would explain why you are on part time furlough as you have agreed, for a fixed period, to go part time.

@Girlyracer

You requested P/T and the company agreed/planned on that basis. You can't just say I've changed my mind I want F/T without the company agreeing it.

You want furlough F/T pay when you weren't going to be working F/T?

Unreasonable and grabby.

I didn't request part time. They requested I use my carried over holiday which they were unable to pay during my maternity leave to phase my coming back. So not actually changing my FT contract. Then just as I'm about to come back they say they can't pay my holidays again so will not be getting my FT pay. At this stage I am unable to secure FT childcare as it's literally the week before so have no option but to agree. Then they are insisting I am taking my holidays while they are claiming furlough for me.

Potentially it is all legal and just bad timing for me but I do feel that I am losing out having never wanted to be part time and run the risk of being negotiated out of my FT contract.

So reading your first post again I think you wanted to come back part time but until Christmas use annual leave to effectively work full time and get paid your part time wage plus a couple of days annual leave to make it up to a full time wage? Is that correct? And you started working part time last week? If so what was agreed I. Your new terms, are you part time and they paying you some annual leave, or full time taking 2 days a week annual leave for example? There is a difference and which it is will determine if they are being legal or not. If you come back part time then what they are doing now is completely legal and unfortunately you will have to suck it up. If you came back full time then actually what they are doing is wrong.

Ok, I think I’ve got it straightened out.

You asked to be paid the holiday entitlement you accrued during mat leave rather than take it as days which they refused

They then asked you to use it instead over the course of the next two months - so you would work some days and take annual leave others, so you would receive normal full salary but only working the days you aren’t on leave.

They’ve then furloughed you 3 days a week but want you to use your holiday leave to top up the 80% to 100%?

So you are losing a full days holiday entitlement to top up 20% of a days pay?

This is 100% where you lose out, holiday pay is accrued throughout the year based on hours worked, it’s why you get paid for your holiday if you leave jobs and have leave owed. The company effectively holds back part of your salary to cover your paid holiday (it’s more complicated than that and for salaried workers you’d never really see it like that but for simplicity that’s the best description)

So the 80% reserved holiday pay for the furlough days is being lost if the company is claiming furlough for those 3 days.

It’s like a PP said, if you take annual leave on furlough effectively you are unfurloughed because the company should pay you 100% themselves that day.

Of course that’s set against the current economic background, and what should be happening very often isnt.

You have to make a judgement on whether it’s worth rocking the boat, when does your leave year start? What happens when you run out of annual leave?

if you take annual leave on furlough effectively you are unfurloughed because the company should pay you 100% themselves that day

FFS. Can't you read some of the links to government websites where it explicitly says that employers can insist employees take holiday while on furlough as long as they (the employer) tops up the remaining 20%?

I wish folk who don't have a clue would not present their ill-informed opinions as facts.

Or @OllyBJolly did your reading comprehension fail you?

Where did I say companies couldn’t insist employees took holiday on furlough? Of course they are entitled to do that.

They just can’t insist the employee uses all of their leave that way - they still have to have consideration for the quality of the annual leave (I think the key words revolve around whether the need to socially distance or self isolate would prevent the worker from resting relaxing and enjoying leisure time).

Which seems to be what’s happening here, The company is using OPs annual leave long term to top up to 100%.

OPs point seems to be that by the company claiming 80% each day for the furlough, and then 20% being claimed from holiday, why are the company removing 100% of a days holiday allowance.

Other companies have for instance applied one days holiday per week of furlough - which seems more fair and splits one annual leave day in to 20% each applied Monday- Friday of the furlough week.

But in OPs case where long term she seems to be expected to use her holiday entitlement to top up to 100% then she’s right to question it.

Not failed at all. Trying to keep 34 people in work at the moment and I'm immersed in using all the tools available to be able to do that. The government schemes have helped us keep people in work.

The OP has been accruing leave during maternity and will be accruing leave while furloughed. There is little danger she will run out of leave. The OP says the company has been negatively impacted by the pandemic. The last thing the company needs is for the market to recover and then be obliged to give all employees two years' worth of annual leave.

She is not "being shafted".

Hi all,

Thanks for your advice and comments. Subsequent to seeking legal advice the main issue is that by refusing to honour their agreement to phase my return with some paid holiday they are affectively trying to push me onto a part time contract without proper agreement or consultation. I have never agreed to have my contract changed to part time so furloughing me on part time hours is actually not correct. This also implies I’m losing my rights as a full time employee.

Then there’s the separate issue of insisting I use a days holiday for each day furloughed. This could be ok if furlough only goes on for one month but as PP pointed out if it goes on until March it will mean giving up a large bulk of my annual leave which I consider unreasonable.

It’s likely they’re not actively trying to ‘shaft’ me but are just overwhelmed by the scale of this mess and have lots of employees to deal with. I have requested a call with HR so will let you know how this goes!

So as you are full time therefore if they furlough you it's at 80% of your full time pay up to a max of £2500/month. If you had holidays booked, or even if you didn't they can insist you take those too, but you will get paid 100% salary for those days. The only thing you should be signing is an agreement to be on furlough as required by law. That doesn't change your contractual rights.
So for example if you were planning to work three days a week and take two days holiday you would get furlough pay for all five days (see above) plus 20% more for the two days annual leave. How long this goes on for I guess depends on what you had already agreed, how much annual leave entitlement you have accrued and how much annual leave you will accrue while on furlough. So if you have a full years annual leave to take plus whatever you accrue each month until the end of furlough they wouldn't be unreasonable to insist you use it. But they must pay you at 100% for each days annual leave you take.

You would be unreasonable, and worse off financially, to try to go back on your plans and insist you aren't taking the leave you had planned to take.

Protect your full time status because if it comes to the worst case scenario and you're made redundant then any payout would be based on your full time salary.