Very cold classrooms

[ZolaGrey]

My 10 year older daughter just got in the car after school and she is frozen, her lips are chapped and her fingers are freezing.

It turns out that the school have decided not to heat the classrooms and that all doors and windows have to be open all the time, it's been around 3-6° all day here. She's had her coat on all day.

I've said that she could take a hoodie or similar in tomorrow but she said they're not allowed as it's not uniform, they have however been told they can wear hats, scarves and fingerless gloves in the classroom

I would imagine that if I kept my house unheated, with all the doors and windows open all the time that I would be accused of some kind of neglect.

Am I right to be unhappy about the set up? I'm a bit over stressed at the minute so I'm not sure how reasoned my reactions are to things currently!

How are everybody else's school approaching this? Has anybody had any logics information to back up this approach?

I’m not a teacher but I work at a school and don’t get to move around, the teacher doesn’t move around now either.

The number of people that are just like 'buy her thermals' rather than realising that this is absolutely outrageous and unacceptable. If schools can't be open safely they shouldn't be open. And yes, safety extends to temperature too. Expecting nursery age children in Scotland to be in unheated rooms all day, all winter is scandalous.

This is the guidance: (unless dfe changed it again)

Keeping occupied spaces well ventilated

Once the school is in operation, it is important to ensure it is well ventilated and a comfortable teaching environment is maintained.

This can be achieved by a variety of measures including:

mechanical ventilation systems – these should be adjusted to increase the ventilation rate wherever possible, and checked to confirm that normal operation meets current guidance (if possible, systems should be adjusted to full fresh air or, if not, then systems should be operated as normal as long as they are within a single room and supplemented by an outdoor air supply)natural ventilation – opening windows (in cooler weather windows should be opened just enough to provide constant background ventilation, and opened more fully during breaks to purge the air in the space). Opening internal doors can also assist with creating a throughput of airnatural ventilation – if necessary external opening doors may also be used (as long as they are not fire doors and where safe to do so)

Further advice on this can be found in Health and Safety Executive guidance onair conditioning and ventilation during the coronavirus outbreakandCIBSE coronavirus (COVID-19) advice.

To balance the need for increased ventilation while maintaining a comfortable temperature, the following measures should also be used as appropriate:

opening high level windows in preference to low level to reduce draughts
increasing the ventilation while spaces are unoccupied (e.g. between classes, during break and lunch, when a room is unused)
providing flexibility to allow additional, suitable indoor clothing. For more information seeSchool uniform
rearranging furniture where possible to avoid direct drafts

Heating should be used as necessary to ensure comfort levels are maintained particularly in occupied spaces.

Ventilation is required if schools are to remain open

It doesn't mean heating should be off.
Ours is on and so is DD's school.

Layers are not as useful or working as well when there are longer periods of sitting still.

Go in the morning in the garden an sit on a plastic chair for an hour. Wear as many layers as you want. Then tell me if you're a decent,comfortable temperature after and how your hand and feet feel.

If schools are to remain comfortably open, I think it would make sense to let children and staff wear their own sensible warm clothes. Layers, jumpers, hoodies, joggers, jeans etc are much more comfortable to sit and write in than insisting on shirts, blazers, tights/knee length skirts, thin trousers and school shoes, none of which are warm or terribly comfortable! Putting a fleece on, either under or over a blazer to try to add layers is not comfortable to sit and work in.

That would be a very simple way to keep everyone comfortable over the next few months.

@Perfect28

The number of people that are just like 'buy her thermals' rather than realising that this is absolutely outrageous and unacceptable. If schools can't be open safely they shouldn't be open. And yes, safety extends to temperature too. Expecting nursery age children in Scotland to be in unheated rooms all day, all winter is scandalous.

I don’t think the parents want the schools to shut 😂😂

@ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble

Ventilation is required if schools are to remain open

It doesn't mean heating should be off.
Ours is on and so is DD's school.

Layers are not as useful or working as well when there are longer periods of sitting still.

Go in the morning in the garden an sit on a plastic chair for an hour. Wear as many layers as you want. Then tell me if you're a decent,comfortable temperature after and how your hand and feet feel.

I’ve said I work in a school and sit there all day sooooo 🤦🏼‍♀️

Seriously this thread is mad. Would you be expected to work in these conditions? My tutor room was 1degree this morning. Apparently that's fine now because you know, kids and teachers have got to put up and shut up right.

So the German government installs air filtration systems in schools and we insist our kids sit in a classroom all day with the windows open, in winter, with the heating off and people think it’s unacceptable to ask questions?

Our kids are suffering because no one could work out anything beyond this blunt strategy?

We didn't have heating before the holidays but I assume it's on now - it comes on after October half term usually. I haven't checked as I'm off sick this week with Covid.

But yes we have to have windows open, and where possible doors. Ventilation is key and it's one of the very few things we can actually do in classrooms to help matters.

And yes it is cold. I have arthritis and my joints, especially my hands, get really painful when cold. I'm not looking forward to the mid winter!

Layers is the answer, including thermals. I've just ordered some thermal vests and thermal tights for one I return. I will also be layering up and have ordered some fingerless gloves which I hope will help.

It's not an ideal situation. The windows need to be open though the heating should be on too. Ventilation is really important. Being cold is better than having the schools closed overall.

Heating makes little difference in my classroom once the windows are open to be honest, so it may on already. I'm often cold in winter in our school, going to be worse!

@NullcovoidNovember

* d of e guidelines say.. Along the lines of, being counter intuitive to have the heating on with open windows but it's a pandemic and we need to mitigate risk.

We need to reduce the viral load. Everywhere with windows open and masks, we would be reducing viral load and the virus spread.

What a country of big babies we are with this fear of a draft!! Wrap up!

There is no such thing as too cold, just not warm enough clothing.
It's every shoulder to the wheel to get us through winter as safely as possible

@Aragog

We didn't have heating before the holidays but I assume it's on now - it comes on after October half term usually. I haven't checked as I'm off sick this week with Covid.

But yes we have to have windows open, and where possible doors. Ventilation is key and it's one of the very few things we can actually do in classrooms to help matters.

And yes it is cold. I have arthritis and my joints, especially my hands, get really painful when cold. I'm not looking forward to the mid winter!

Layers is the answer, including thermals. I've just ordered some thermal vests and thermal tights for one I return. I will also be layering up and have ordered some fingerless gloves which I hope will help.

It's not an ideal situation. The windows need to be open though the heating should be on too. Ventilation is really important. Being cold is better than having the schools closed overall.

The issue is when the windows and doors are open and no heating. And people seem to think it's completely acceptable, even when colder.. just layer up.

Ours had the boiler act up on Monday as well - so they sent us a message saying to add on the layers! Ours is not a school that's very picky about uniform though - so I sent mine in with hoodies on top of school uniforms and then I bought some long sleeved thermal tops in white to go under their shirts as well.

Heating's now fixed - but we've been told when it gets colder - they'll go to non uniform and layer them up - our school is pretty flexible like that though.

By some coincidence both my kids are sat next to the heaters anyway at least.

@Perfect28

Seriously this thread is mad. Would you be expected to work in these conditions? My tutor room was 1degree this morning. Apparently that's fine now because you know, kids and teachers have got to put up and shut up right.

I think this is where my head is at.

Half of me is thinking about things I can do or provide to help her be less cold, and the other half of me is a bit furious that this is something I have to be addressing.

Plus it's all well and good that I can chuck £20/30 at the problem, a lot of families can't and their children will suffer because of it, which is obviously awful.

But we have no choice.

I'm assuming our hearting is on. I don't know because I am at home recovering from Covid - almost certainly picked up at school.

I am expecting cold on my return though. It's always cold in many of our rooms - old Victorian building doesn't help. So windows open will be even colder. Even if the heating is on it has limited effect in my experience, especially with windows and doors open.

I don't think it's acceptable. For me it will mean more pain and increased medication.

However what is the alternative?

We have to have them open.
Hopefully heating can still be on to take the edge off. I don't know the DfE rules on that.
Layers are really important and the only way forward.

It's one of the only methods of protection schools now have against Covid.

All of the schools, bar one, round here have relaxed uniform rules at the moment to allow jumpers, hoodies or fleeces to be worn. They've asked that "as far as possible" they are black/grey/navy/white and not sloganed, but they're not forcing that.

The primary school my two youngest attend has a uniform of black bottoms, white top, black or school coloured jumper/sweater/hoodie since going back after the summer. DD went in today in tights, leggings, joggers, very, a long sleeve polo and a fleece.

Bloody ridiculous. I couldn’t tolerate those conditions, certainly couldn’t concentrate on work. I can’t bear to be cold, why should we expect children to put up with it ?

It has really made me appreciate how sensible the HT was to make the call about uniform in the summer holidays so that when people were buying they could take this scenario into account. Instead of people buying hundreds of pounds worth of uniform and then having to buy extras

@DominaShantotto

Ours had the boiler act up on Monday as well - so they sent us a message saying to add on the layers! Ours is not a school that's very picky about uniform though - so I sent mine in with hoodies on top of school uniforms and then I bought some long sleeved thermal tops in white to go under their shirts as well.

Heating's now fixed - but we've been told when it gets colder - they'll go to non uniform and layer them up - our school is pretty flexible like that though.

By some coincidence both my kids are sat next to the heaters anyway at least.

DD is near the window,but like I said the heating is on.

It was bad enough the other day when it was pissing down and both she and her book got wet. Not soaked,but enough to feel it. Imagine if there was no heating either.
Due to how the desks need to be set out, more gvnmt guidance, there's not enough room to not have pupils near/under the windows.

@Paul72

I'm surprised that it is legal to ask the teacher to work in those temperatures. I thought there were minimum temperatures required in the workplace. It sounds terrible for your daughter. (I'm pleased that our local bus drivers have seen sense and all the windows are now closed on the buses)

Gove got rid of the minimum temperatures for classrooms.

Air circulation is important in preventing the spread of Covid. This will be part of their Covid risk assessment.

Buy thermals, they work brilliantly. Thermal tights are a godsend, my office rarely is over 10 degrees ever. The air temp today was 11 degrees so I'm guessing you aren't near me though

Ps my local high school has offered school hoodies for the kids - has the cute covid 19 emoji thing on it and designed overall by one of the kids, they look smart (black) and warm, sold at cost (£10) and given to fsm/low income

• Keeping occupied spaces well ventilated Once the school is in operation, it is important to ensure it is well ventilated and a comfortable teaching environment is maintained. This can be achieved by a variety of measures including: • mechanical ventilation systems – these should be adjusted to increase the ventilation rate wherever possible, and checked to confirm that normal operation meets current guidance (if possible, systems should be adjusted to full fresh air or, if not, then systems should be operated as normal as long as they are within a single room and supplemented by an outdoor air supply) • natural ventilation – opening windows (in cooler weather windows should be opened just enough to provide constant background ventilation, and opened more fully during breaks to purge the air in the space). Opening internal doors can also assist with creating a throughput of air • natural ventilation – if necessary external opening doors may also be used (as long as they are not fire doors and where safe to do so) Further advice on this can be found in Health and Safety Executive guidance on air conditioning and ventilation during the coronavirus outbreakk and CIBSE coronavirus (COVID-19) advicee. To balance the need for increased ventilation while maintaining a comfortable temperature, the following measures should also be used as appropriate: • opening high level windows in preference to low level to reduce draughts • increasing the ventilation while spaces are unoccupied (e.g. between classes, during break and lunch, when a room is unused) • providing flexibility to allow additional, suitable indoor clothing. For more information see School uniform • rearranging furniture where possible to avoid direct drafts Heating should be used as necessary to ensure comfort levels are maintained particularly in occupied spaces.*

DD's in senior school so they obviously move round between lessons which helps to warm them up. They are also allowed to wear their PE jumpers over their uniform and a t shirt / vest underneath it and wooly tights. Windows open though and I don't think the heating is on.

DS's school - primary - are encouraging extra layers and make them get up and do 10 star jumps every 30 minutes which seems to serve to warm them all up nicely I'm not sure if this is every class but DS's form teacher happens to also be the PE teacher