Very cold classrooms

[ZolaGrey]

My 10 year older daughter just got in the car after school and she is frozen, her lips are chapped and her fingers are freezing.

It turns out that the school have decided not to heat the classrooms and that all doors and windows have to be open all the time, it's been around 3-6° all day here. She's had her coat on all day.

I've said that she could take a hoodie or similar in tomorrow but she said they're not allowed as it's not uniform, they have however been told they can wear hats, scarves and fingerless gloves in the classroom

I would imagine that if I kept my house unheated, with all the doors and windows open all the time that I would be accused of some kind of neglect.

Am I right to be unhappy about the set up? I'm a bit over stressed at the minute so I'm not sure how reasoned my reactions are to things currently!

How are everybody else's school approaching this? Has anybody had any logics information to back up this approach?

Seems like some parents would rather their children were uncomfortable and not learning anything for the sake of them not being at home. Turns out, as we knew all along, we are just a glorified babysitting service. Thing is, if everyone agrees this can't we just make it explicitly and do fun things with the children? Go outdoors more, do fun practical tasks and games etc. Nope we have to continue the daily slog, planning, marking, enforcing behaviour policies, filling in forms and completing data entry. It's nuts. The whole thing is nuts.

Perfect28

I agree. The attitudes around the whole lockdown, school closures etc has very firmly told me that I am nothing but a badly paid babysitter.

Regarding keeping warm, I've invested in some proper thermals from Damart and have been wearing them under things like polo neck jumpers and trousers. Also thermal socks. It really makes a difference.

@Shadowboy

For us the heating is on if you want it. I taught six hours yesterday in a huge lab that Is cold at the best of times. I open 2 windows and the door but not all my windows because I found students stopped concentrating and the lesson became pointless- to warm up they start asking to go to the toilet or they fidget. My hands stopped working- despite fingerless gloves and I struggled to write clearly on the board. I’m not allowed to move round my classroom- they painted a line in the floor that I shouldn’t cross so standing still for 6 hours in a room that is 12 degrees is grim. Try it. Sit in an office for 6 hours solid with it at 12 degrees and try to concentrate and work well.

So today I’ve got the heating on to take the edge off.

Oh god that sounds horrendous.

Yes, people saying "oh I don't even have my heating on at home until the evening" are unlikely to be sat still for the best part of 6 hours whilst trying to work, with a draught.

She's gone in today with an extra layer on top, two pairs of tights and a hat (and lip balm for her fictitious chapped lips...) so hopefully she'll be mildly less icy when she gets home!

@Perfect28

Seems like some parents would rather their children were uncomfortable and not learning anything for the sake of them not being at home. Turns out, as we knew all along, we are just a glorified babysitting service. Thing is, if everyone agrees this can't we just make it explicitly and do fun things with the children? Go outdoors more, do fun practical tasks and games etc. Nope we have to continue the daily slog, planning, marking, enforcing behaviour policies, filling in forms and completing data entry. It's nuts. The whole thing is nuts.

I agree, if they're only in to keep parents at work then ditch the uniform and the sitting still for extended periods etc. I'm lucky and her being home isn't a massive issue at the minute and I'd rather she was home and warm than at school in questionable conditions and cold. Being cold is miserable.

I usually send my DD in with thermal long johns under her school trousers, long sleeve thermal vest (merino), long sleeved polo and jumper, school fleece and a big padded thermal parka coat. And lipsalve, hat and fingerless gloves. Or leggings with a furry lining and a wool skirt. Thermal socks.

Yet by the time she comes home she’s usually stripped down to just the jumper!

Does your school keep the heating on?

8. Keeping occupied spaces well ventilated

Once the school is in operation, it is important to ensure it is well ventilated and a comfortable teaching environment is maintained.

This can be achieved by a variety of measures including:

mechanical ventilation systems – these should be adjusted to increase the ventilation rate wherever possible, and checked to confirm that normal operation meets current guidance (if possible, systems should be adjusted to full fresh air or, if not, then systems should be operated as normal as long as they are within a single room and supplemented by an outdoor air supply)
natural ventilation – opening windows (in cooler weather windows should be opened just enough to provide constant background ventilation, and opened more fully during breaks to purge the air in the space). Opening internal doors can also assist with creating a throughput of air
natural ventilation – if necessary external opening doors may also be used (as long as they are not fire doors and where safe to do so)

Further advice on this can be found in Health and Safety Executive guidance on air conditioning and ventilation during the coronavirus outbreak and CIBSE coronavirus (COVID-19) advice.

To balance the need for increased ventilation while maintaining a comfortable temperature, the following measures should also be used as appropriate:

opening high level windows in preference to low level to reduce draughts
increasing the ventilation while spaces are unoccupied (e.g. between classes, during break and lunch, when a room is unused)
<strong>providing flexibility to allow additional, suitable indoor clothing</strong>. For more information see School uniform
rearranging furniture where possible to avoid direct drafts

Heating should be used as necessary to ensure comfort levels are maintained particularly in occupied spaces

www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/guidance-for-full-opening-

OP this is very clear in the guidance - heating should be on and flexibility allowed around school uniform!

My lips start being chapped as soon as the weather drops below 15 degrees. I spent the whole day inside yesterday with warmth at my fingertips and my lips are still chapped today.
Also I suffer from a pain condition that is made vastly worse when I am cold. So glad I am working from home for the winter and won't have to end up cold and in pain via commuting on cold public transport.
This has been one crazy year.

@RhapsodyandAshe

My lips start being chapped as soon as the weather drops below 15 degrees. I spent the whole day inside yesterday with warmth at my fingertips and my lips are still chapped today. Also I suffer from a pain condition that is made vastly worse when I am cold. So glad I am working from home for the winter and won't have to end up cold and in pain via commuting on cold public transport. This has been one crazy year.

Exactly this. The "some people have it worse, buck up" attitude is exhausting. People are allowed to feel the cold without being classed as melodramatic weaklings!

I'm similar to you and anything under about 14/15° and I start to sort of shut down, normally starting at the joints and then I kind of seize up!

Hope you're warmer today!

@NullcovoidNovember

That info is helpful, thanks!

@RattleOfBars

I've asked friends with children in the same class as my daughter and who also have other children in different (younger) classes.

There seems to be no heating throughout but the window/door situation differs, so it must be down to teacher discretion which I understand must also depend on risk factors of the teacher/ how they feel about the situation. Either way, there needs to be flexibility with the uniform etc if approaches will differ throughout the school.

It is not Down to teacher discretion, you need to send that guidance to the school, it's been sent out to all schools... That's from the government.

On another page it says no 8,which is open windows must happen.

My son is one of the lucky ones as he doesn't really feel the cold and really likes that the windows are open as he normally finds classrooms really hot and stuffy but I appreciate lots of people aren't like this (I'm not)

What I don't understand is some schools hatred of hoodies. I don't really get what is so wrong with them? These would help with kids being cold rather than a blazer

@safariboot

That is completely unacceptable from the school. It absolutely warrants a "raise hell" level response. If you do social media, how about a tweet @ your local newspaper.

In my experience that never has the desired effect.

@GhostTypeEevee

My son is one of the lucky ones as he doesn't really feel the cold and really likes that the windows are open as he normally finds classrooms really hot and stuffy but I appreciate lots of people aren't like this (I'm not)

What I don't understand is some schools hatred of hoodies. I don't really get what is so wrong with them? These would help with kids being cold rather than a blazer

I don't understand it either. But then I don't really understand the obsession with impractical uniform anyway. Primary should just be trainers, joggers, tshirt and sweatshirt in the winter, they spend most of their time covered in stuff and on the floor etc anyway. Who on Earth decided it was logical to get 6 year olds into tights and eye wateringly expensive leather shoes?!

Plus our primary decided to switch from white polo shirts (bleachable, readily available, white in one shop is white in another etc) to GOLD ones. So now the whole school is a hodge podge of gold/yellow/murky yellowy grey tops, you can't breach them, you can't wash them with whites, can't wash them with darks...I digress...

@chrislilleyswig

Hahaha no me neither. Polite, clear and concise emailing is the way forward.

@Spinakker

Am I the only person who thinks having all the windows open like this in schools is just ridiculous all winter ? Especially without heating.

Well as that a what the OP is about if hazard guess that you're not particularly special.

Taken from the Scottish government website.

While minimum requirements vary depending on the specific part of the school estate, for classrooms the regulations stipulate 2 air changes per hour and a temperature of 17 degrees C. Reference should also be made to the Workplace
(Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 minimum temperatures.

www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-reducing-the-risks-in-schools/pages/scientific-and-public-health-advice/

Correct link to England’s guidelines

www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/guidance-for-full-opening-schools

Uniform no longer to be warn at our ultra conservative independent.

A lot of the parents are aghast but I would imagine the children are pleased to be warm.

If you were freezing at work you'd complain? Agree with thermals, extra layers, extra cardigan. There's no way I'd be sitting freezing all day...send her with plenty of stuff to keep warm- sick on heat pads, hand warmers. If she's still cold and gets told off for non-compliance of uniform policy just tell her to ignore the teacher and say 'no I'm not taking it off, if you have a problem call my mum and argue with her'. It doesn't mean your child is being disrespectful or rude it mean she's confident and bright enough to not be freezing all day.

Argh, this sounds bloody cruel! I’d be sending her in with thermal long johns on and very thick socks or tights plus boots if you can and a thick hat and scarf. It’s horrible to imagine very young children (like 4 and 5 year olds) sitting there freezing all day.

I used to work a job where I was outside but behind a stall so couldn't move about much. Even with multiple layers, I was generally freezing.

What helped - those stick on heat patches inside my coat. You get to a point where you can't generate heat so having an additional source helped loads.

Socks and good ugg type boots. I bet the school would fight on this one but they made such a difference to me (mine were a tenner in tesco.)

I bought some of those silver foil survival blankets and sewed a layer between two fleece blankets then wrapped it around my legs. It really helped to maintain the heat.

Lots of hot drinks.

I know not all of that will be practical for school but some should be doable!

I think the approach recommended to write to governors about relaxing uniform policy during this period has to be the way to go. And then shout and make a fuss if school are being inflexible about it.

So far neither of my two primary dc have seemed that bothered re the cold - but their school have sent out very sensible guidance about layering and stating that kids can wear a fleece, hoodie or body warmer etc even if not in uniform colours. They are also recommending that girls wear trousers rather than skirts which makes sense too.

The entire situation is tough - but surely the schools that err on the anal side with regard to uniform have GOT to relax their policies for the sake of everyone’s comfort? No one can concentrate effectively if they’re really cold.

The entire situation is tough - but surely the schools that err on the anal side with regard to uniform have GOT to relax their policies for the sake of everyone’s comfort?

This.

I honestly cannot fathom the mindset of a head concerned with uniform regs in these circumstances. It’s batshit.