to think I've figured out the nature of Trump's genius

[lingle]

so, I think I've got it! I know how he does it!

I think his genius is that he makes his enemies look down on his supporters, and the one thing everyone but everyone hates is being looked down on.

I was reflecting on Michael Moore's comment yesterday, that Trump is an evil genius. That most people focus too much on the evil but that Moore has learned to focus on the Genius bit.

And then I thought about what right-wing commentators like Steve Crowder say ("don't marry a Democrat because she will despise you") and at my own Trump-supporting US family member who is sick of being told to be nicer by people with secure jobs and government pensions.

And I thought - that's it! He knows that every enemy he makes will say "how can people vote for him?" and therefore make him two friends"

AIBU to wish I'd figured this out in 2014 before it was too late?

you could read the Scott Adams book about super-persuaders. I don't like Adams any more (total Libertarian). But he might be saying similar things to you. For me, Trump is deeply un-American because his whole schtick is to hype up resentment. Americans normally are a lot more optimistic than grudge-bearing. You're right, it can work as a persuasion method.

I understand that Trump's rallies are very funny & entertaining. He is a showman.

that is a charitable response given that you (I think) have been putting in the hours on the Trump threads for 4 years.... whereas I'm a lingle-come-lately :).
Not that that would stop the orange one....

Election results mean i'm pretty miserable today, tbh, but holding off on the since I want to go swimming later. (sigh)

That sounds very plausible.

Absolutely agree. Democrats / remainers never consider WHY people vote for Trump / Brexit. It is often because voters feel disenfranchised / cast aside. Their vote is a vote against the status quo / the establishment. Democrats / remainers react by pouring scorn on those who vote differently to them and by calling them stupid ...racist...etc Why do they expect voters to switch sides after giving them such a kicking? I remember watching Panorama immediately after Brexit and feeling really chastened by the interviews with brexiteers. These were no immigrant hating racists; they were simply people who had fallen on rough times and whose situation had been made worse by austerity. They were watching Polish immigrants jump to the top of housing lists and asking why they were not being afforded the same treatment. Not racist; a reasonable question to ask. Post Brexit / post Trump win, the remainers / democrats should have been asking why people voted the way they did and addressing their issues. They didn’t. They continued to patronise with their “wokeness” and, as a result, the disenfranchised entrenched their position.

I think you and michael Moore are 100% correct

No, it’s nothing to do with Trump or any special genius he might possess. We have descended into a toxic identity politics that means if you aren’t 100% on message then you’re stupid/evil, and the worst offenders for this are the so called left. Left would appear to be an identity nowadays, not a political orientation, and most of the people who claim to be lefties are nothing of the sort, in fact they have more in common with an authoritarian right.

Labour have well and truly fallen into this trap as well. They probably would have won the last election if it hadn’t been for Corbyn and the Corbyn youth shouting insults and sneering at the electorate. Most people have no time for this tribal identity bullshit and they won’t vote for it, even when it might be in their interests to do so, but still we see Labour blaming the idiot electorate for voting the wrong way, rather than reflecting on the reasons why they didn’t vote for them. This is why Labour won’t see the inside of Downing Street for a long time. I have no idea how things will turn out in the US but their situation is different, even if the same dynamics are at play.

Its a really good point. From what I can see a lot of people genuinely vote Trump / Conservative because they feel it will be a better option jobs/economy wise whether thats true or not thats the bottom line. The Identity politics doesn't come into it for many people.

I live in a low income area that turned Conservative last Genreal Election and Brexit, as PP have said immigration has had a huge impact here, schools and surgeries are oversubscribed and wages are stagnating, if the left won't address it then they will lose people's trust and calling people rascist for worrying abut that does not help.

@Whatisthisfuckery I think you and OP are both right.

When you think people aren't listening, you shout louder and with greater fury. Both sides are doing this.

Poverty Safari by Darren Mcgarvey explains Brexit so well. If you spend long enough telling people they are thick and you know better, making changes to their communities ‘in their interests’ without consulting them and abusing them when they question or complain, they will mistrust every thing that ever comes from someone outside their group.
I don’t know enough about Trump to know his tactics because I have to turn the telly off when his ugly orange face comes on but I expect he knows this. I remember he once said something about republicans being thick and easy to manipulate when he was a reality star.

I don't think he necessarily makes his opponents look down on his supporters, he has just exposes their true thoughts and how elitist a lot of the political class has become. It's like Democrat rep Maxine waters saying the other day that she will never forgive any black person who votes for Trump!
This is the best Michael Moore video about populism
m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=UDL3Yjl31K8

Populist shit stirrer?

Does anyone remember the excruciating Guardian letter writing campaign? To Bush supporters? That backfired for the same reason I think.

I remember he once said something about republicans being thick and easy to manipulate when he was a reality star

Heard this too. He appeals to a very simple, black-and-white world view - "them vs us", "I am better than you", "Americans vs Others" type of thing. The kind of knee-jerk, basic, emotions that most people would have grown past past junior school level and do not require much thought, but this resonates with people who find this kind of thing easier to digest than complicated political discourse.

The words he uses and his style of speech appeal to them because it is emotional, not intellectual. Short, simple words. They don't have to think - only feel - cheer when "our team" is winning and boo the other side.

I don't know if Trump planned this - I don't personally think he's that clever - but he is very manipulative and spoilt and used to getting what he wants. And he uses this approach in everything he does.

Something in him probably knew he could impress these people and get their support no matter what, he's probably acted this way his whole life. And well, it's worked.

On another note (don't want to hijack this thread) - I'd love to know more about the psychology of what makes a person lean towards right-wing or left-wing views. Is it simply emotional vs intellectual?

AIBU to wish I'd figured this out in 2014 before it was too late?

Too late for what? What did you do in 2014?

By 2015 he was on a roll.....

“Does anyone remember the excruciating Guardian letter writing campaign? To Bush supporters? That backfired for the same reason I think.”
It just makes you Clench....

He's definitely added showman 😂.

I've just seen Biden, his voice was so soothing, and reassuring and calm. A tonic, a balm but I naturally switched off.
I'm don't switch off when trump speaks, I may not like what he says but he gets my attention.

Good post Agatha, I agree its very tribal, football style stuff... Our team.

Df was dyed red Labour, would never vote tory. Thankfully whilst he was passionate about his politics he never forced it on me. Dm was a swing voter. As am I, I feel being in the middle is healthier than extremes either way which then meet in the middle.

@Smallsteps88

AIBU to wish I'd figured this out in 2014 before it was too late?

Too late for what? What did you do in 2014?

DID YOU SAY SOMETHING TO TRUMP IN 2014 😲

@WinniePig

I strongly agree there is not enough thought given to why people are voting the way they do. There's a lot wrong, people need help and they're expressing that.

The thing that gets me is that with both Brexit and trump there are bigger issues at stake. (World peace, democracy). It doesn't feel like an appropriate place for a protest vote.

Michael Moore is very pleased with his own ideas for somebody who consistently talks out of his arse and made a weird love letter to hillary clinton.

Maybe we've just reached a point were the media is 90% owned by right wingers and people can come out with utter shit like 'polish people jump to the front of housing ques' without being challenge on their nonsense?

I can answer that question with studies Agatha but it wont go down well.

Sneering at people for saying things like Poles jump to the front of the queue is part if the problem.
Maybe the person is incorrect, in which case provide the facts.

If you are stuck in a shitty situation and theres the perception of unfairness, of course resentment will breed. If you perceive unfairness, and are then insulted for mentioning it, how are you going to feel?

People arent self negating saints....oh please, you take the last council flat in the area..... but they aren't rabid frothers desperate to do down innocent newcomers for no reason either.