AIBU to wish I were religious?

[religiouslychallenged]

Name changed as I never thought I'd be anything other than a stoney atheist (and it's a hell of a lot of fun to come up with new names, pardon the pun).

Can't help but feel on some level desperate for religion. I poked fun at people who were heavily emotionally attached to the concept of God, mostly to do with premarital shagging. Now I wish I had something I could dedicate myself to as much as folk dedicate themselves to God and religion. Anyone else?

Well I did sleep with her that night and ended up bumping into in another country further down the backpacker trail. That’s what was good about travelling. You end up meeting lots of different people who wouldn’t ever do just sticking to your hometown or going to package holiday places. We were chalk and cheese but had an interesting conversation

And whilst clearly religious she wasn’t trying to convert me in reality. She was happy enough for me to say I might be agnostic

People always get me when they ask how do you know for sure? Always end up caving in saying I can’t for certain and that apparently makes me agnostic in some peoples minds. But like I said how to you prove it. I’m still an atheist but would prefer to be agnostic

Keeps you in the game.

@religiouslychallenged

goosefoot can i ask how studying philosophy led you to god? do you think you were maybe just wantin some answers

It's not at all uncommon for people who study philosophy to think God exists, it's a bit of a myth that it's unusual. I am, philisophically speaking, a platonist, which is one of the major philosophical traditions, and there are quite a few platonist philosophers. Christianity, and a number of other major religions, are platonic or partly platonic, though there are also non-religious platonists.

People always get me when they ask how do you know for sure? Always end up caving in saying I can’t for certain and that apparently makes me agnostic in some peoples minds

If that's the threshold then I've no problem being called agnostic. I wouldn't identify myself as one though because that would be misleading – after all, most people define agnostic as someone significantly more unsure than that.

I would reply that I'm about as accepting that a god MAY exist as I am that the ghost of a two-headed cow lives in my wardrobe. I can't 100% rule either out.

It sounds to me that you need to look further into your beliefs.

I’m not sure of the definition or other peoples concepts but saying I don’t know seems to satisfies some. I don’t want to be an agressive atheist and don’t understand the concept of one. I’ve noticed religious people attacking atheists as if it was a religion itself when it’s the complete opposite of one. Think it started when people like Dawkins got interviewed on TV was portrayed as being too aggressive. As in you’re so vocal you sound like a religious person

I wouldn’t push my atheism on anyone. Doesn’t make sense as is not a benefit system. But will fight back when people’s religions start fucking with my own rights. Always been live and let live but with the proviso you can’t push your own stuff on others

Belief but benefit is cool as well.

No yanbu imo to want to be religious. I'm a Muslim and my faith keeps me afloat. It comforts me, gives me compassion and hope. It helps me during hard times and I believe my prayers have helped me by seeing new opportunities, seeing through what was not meant to be, being patient and accepting people for who they are. It has helped me to see through situations where they just settle like a missing jigsaw piece. I personally do nothing in participating religiously (as a mass) but I'm 3/5 so far committed to the 5 pillars of Islam just minus the 5x prayers a day and the pilgrimage and committed to the 6 main beliefs of Islam.

Not unreasonable at all, I used to feel the same and now I do consider myself a Christian. It does help massively to alleviate anxieties knowing I can hand them over to God. I know that my prayers might not always be answered in the way I want, but they will ultimately be answered in the way I need.

I've been following a plan to read the whole Bible over a year and that's been a great way to develop my understanding of faith. There's an app which breaks it down into manageable daily chunks and supports it through YouTube videos which explain the narrative structure and literary themes. It's called the Bible Project and is worth checking out if you really are interested.

You lot stay up late!

"@Lougle, when you say you ‘can’t cherry-pick Scripture’, are you saying that the Bible for you isn’t a hotchpotch of human documents arising out of vastly different communities over a long historical period, but the literal word of God? Isn’t that the most clear possible example of “ blind faith’?"

Actually, that's what is really cool about the Bible. Although it was arguably written by man, and many men at that, the 'hand of God' has been demonstrated throughout it.

I haven't got time, now, to get into it, because I have reluctant school children to ready for school, but there are clear numerical patterns that go throughout the whole Bible, which can't be coincidence. Here's a link to an example of what I'm saying:

www.differentspirit.org/evidence/numerics.php

OP, you might want to consider doing an Alpha course. Our church does something called 'Discovery'. I'd be very happy to post you the book that goes with the course, if you're interested.

@Lougle, but the number seven is a pattern significant to several major world religions, classical philosophy and mythologies. There’s nothing specific to the Bible about it, and corpus linguistics could almost certainly find similar patterns in passages of any large corpus of writing.

Are you saying you believe that the Christian god literally intervened in the composition and later revision of every part of the Bible, between around 1500 BC and the first century CE, and whether written in classical Hebrew, Aramaic or Koine Greek, to insert a pattern of sevens?

I believe that God ultimately authored the Bible, yes. Wholeheartedly. I don't believe that we should take every word as literal instruction - some parts of the Old Testament have been superseded by the Gospel of grace.

I don't think, given that I believe in the omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence of God, that it is at all improbable. But I understand that someone without such beliefs would find it so.

Yanbu. I often crave the (relative) certainty, guidance and sense of community that often seems to come with being religious, but I just do not believe in any kind of God.

can i ask how u think that god authored the bible? like did his presence lead people to writing it for him or do you think he actually practically wrote it

This is a really beautiful book OP:

www.amazon.co.uk/Secrets-Divine-Love-Spiritual-Journey/dp/1734231203/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=secrets+of+divine+love&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1604319929&sr=8-1

It mainly focuses on Islam but is not an Islamic textbook, it draws from Christianity and Judaism too and may well answer many of your questions.

To quote the author:

“Although this book is about Islamic spirituality and practices, I believe God is bigger than any one religion or philosophy. I choose Islam as my faith, but I offer you these words from the Qur’an not to change you, but to remind you how much you are loved by God. I believe that just as wisdom teachings from other faiths have enriched my relationship with God, the deeper dimensions of Islam may also inspire you, regardless of what path you choose to walk.”

@religiouslychallenged

can i ask how u think that god authored the bible? like did his presence lead people to writing it for him or do you think he actually practically wrote it

Each book of the Bible had a human author or authors. I'm not saying that God wrote the words directly. But it is His word that was written, I am sure. People were writing under His influence and it is His message that has been communicated.

On the subject of the 7s issue, many books have been studied by people, trying to demonstrate that the pattern of 7s in the Bible is not unique. They have failed. There have also been attempts to create a computer driven algorithm to reproduce the phenomenon, which have also failed.

I've often thought that having faith would be comforting at times but, when it comes down to it, I really don't believe any of it and I can't just decide that I do.

I think you're absolutely right, @amusedbush. You can't choose to believe, I think. You can choose to attend a church/gathering. You can choose to act 'religious'. But actual belief is something deep inside you. However, I do think you can choose to be more or less open to the concept of God, and that it's only if you are open to that concept that you can get to a point where you believe.

I'm not sure belief is entirely separate from how we choose to behave, or what we choose to do, though. Like we have a set of ideas in our brain that remain separate from our experiences, the things we read, the conversations we have, the people we interact with.

It's very common in man church communities for people to say, you can't understand what we are about just by reading the Bible, or theology, or a creed. You have to come and be with the community and understand how those things are instantiated there, how we relate to others and the world. In some they will say you need to really experience, over a period of time, the liturgical activity of the group, the formal acting out of their theology. Because fundamentally it's not theoretical, its about the people.

We aren't really atomic individuals, we always exist and think, and I would say believe, in relation to what is around us.

Even the most ardent Christians don’t tend to think God wrote the Bible unless you’re making a giant leap that God created man and therefore he was ultimately responsible for it. Would mean forgetting that he supposedly created free will as well. It’s a bit of a bizarre thought if you’re Christian as haven’t heard any prominent people from all the different branches to suggest this.

Unlike the Quran which is supposed to be the literal word of God via Muhammed

Interested to know what branch of Christianity you belong to

The Bible itself isn’t a definitive tone as most people know and Is kind of a greatest hits compilation with several versions. King James one is the most common here in the UK but religious scholars don’t just stick to that alone.

Becoming an Archbishop or a Cardinal requires a lot of work and study