AIBU or are the lives of school staff worthless?

[Witchcraftandhokum]

I fully appreciate that the education and mental well-being of children is important but why does it trump the physical and mental health of school staff? The facts are simple, people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise, unless you work in education or the NHS who are provided with effective PPE.

On a daily basis I am expected to supervise the diner where 150 students eat lunch (obviously mask free) if I wish to eat I am also mask free. I have to supervise the same 150 children in narrow corridors. For this pupils are supposed to wear masks but there are a number who refuse (not the students who are exempt) and we cannot enforce it. We hand out hundreds of masks per week to students whose parents don't ensure they have one with them.

We are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms but are given visors which aren't as effective. The children are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. None of this are rules imposed by the school but are in-line with the government guidance.

We have students who say they have developed a cough knowing we have to send them home, we cannot make the decision as to whether they are lying or not, but I've been verbally abused by parents calling me "fucking stupid" for not knowing when a child is lying.

Before half-term we had 25% of staff off sick as they had tested positive (including myself). There are many experts stating schools should be shut but Boris has done a fantastic job of insinuating that school staff are lazy and don't want to work, and the early response to the unions concerns shows that this is working. I've never suffered with stress or anxiety but the thought of a return to school tomorrow is making me feel sick.

Talking to colleagues who work in other schools it appears my experience is not unusual. So AIBU to think that this government doesn't give a shiny shit about school staff.

lucidnightmare Exactly! Your post highlights why schools need to stay open.

School staff are very highly valued which is why the schools are staying open.

They aren't, they are open because of the benefits to children, nothing to do with school staff being highly valued, as demonstrated by this thread (and all of the others).

What's really sad is how competitive everything is, and how everyone is being turned against eachother. Teachers have it shit, so do other people as well, but all people seem to do is minimise others' experiences, especially when it comes to teachers.

Fukedy - teacher here and the first person in my very working class family to ever go to uni. Ff 20 years and my nqt is also the first in her family to ever go to uni. So no, not middle class. My dad was a print worker, hers is a brickie. Fuck off with your idea that we are whining. Maybe we are standing up for rights for workers. Rights to be safe in your workplace. The same as in the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist. Because it shouldn't be a race to the bottom.Because teachers are workers you know. And maybe teachers from wc backgrounds know very well how important it is to stand up for rights.

If that’s directed at me, I was quoting someone else and yes the govt have fucked it up, they renegged on their promise to sort kids access at home. Oh and they offered to tape a 2m box around teachers desks then told us we would be shit teachers if we insisted pupils stayed 2m away

@dontdisturbmenow

Education is essential as many other jobs. why should school staff be especially protected when other essential staff aren't?

Why are teachers so special that they are not afforded the same protection as other workers?

Strange that this is a question that is never answered.

phlebasconsidered as a teacher, I would’ve presumed your comprehension skills would be better. I said ‘Not all teachers’ and that I agree with standing up for safe working conditions, not school closures.

As I said PPE should 100% be provided to them but I think Teachers calling for full closure look ridiculous, and I’m sure they’d also have massive issue if supermarket workers called for closure of the supermarket, or NHS workers called to close A&E.

I don’t understand this argument of protecting lives at all costs when we simply don’t apply this policy to ANY other situation.

Yes there is a risk - but there are risks in every situation in life. If we applied the “one life is too many” rule to everything then we wouldn’t let people drive, because being in a car accident or being hit by a car is a very common thing and a huge risk to pretty much the whole population.

Lives do matter of course they do but the live of people who cannot mentally manage this continuing situation matter, the lives of the people who are losing jobs and businesses matter, their children matter - long term impact to lives matter.

InTheMiddle the idea of moving holidays is an interesting one. Personally I wouldnt as I have a second job, but I think for most it could.

The problem would be getting people to understand the time we have off isnt holiday, its unpaid time. I think it would end up being teachers work from home all term, then unpaid in school during the holidays.

Teachers have a level of protection come on.

Now my job on the other hand ... I work all day children . I've no mask or ppe. I clean their runny noses and wipe their tears. They come for a cuddle when they are upset . They sit on their favourite workers knee for a story . That's the nature of the job and we do it because to deny this when caring for children would be detrimental to their well-being.

I am fed up with you teachers yapping.
You had plenty of time off. Nursery workers and child carers had none. They worked all through the first lockdown with no ppe and will continue to do so.
Children need their education. Schools and children's settings need to be open. Your risks are low . Just stop moaning please for god's sake.

@Wannakisstheteacher

DH is in the Army, he's dealt with far more than you can ever dream of, for less pay probably.

Tbf after the 'effort' DC's teacher put in over Lockdown 1 I now have a very low opinion of teachers and their desire to actually do the job our taxes are paying them to do.

So its ok to judge the entire forces on the actions of one soldier, sailor or airman?

Because if it is then you don't want to know what people think of them.

@LakieLady Ffs, surely there's some kind of mask that's compatible with microphone use? Or different microphones that are compatible with mask wearing? No, wearing a mask muffles the clarity of speech to the extent that wearing one when using a microphone in a role where clear communication is essential is not possible. I wear a headset and microphone at work and we cannot wear masks. We share the headsets among the workforce, and are given a handful of sanicom wipes to clean them with between users. We also eat our dinners whilst wearing them. We work long hours and night shifts, and are provided with bunk space and (if we are lucky) a bed, which we share in turn with the other workers on shift that night. No one cleans the bed or bunk area between staff going on rest, as it is not possible. Frequently, when we finish a shift, we are put into solitary confinement with restricted access to fresh air and food as we are considered (and proven to be!) very high risk for transmission of Covid and the people running the places we stay at the end of our shifts do not want us there really but need us, as we are essential workers. We are subjected to Covid tests on a weekly basis, sometimes by having to spit into a tube, sometimes by having a not-especially-friendly, non-English speaking military official sticking a swab so far up our noses that staff have been known to faint. We have to disinfect our own toilets.

It is tough in a lot of professions atm, and I feel for anyone who has to work in conditions they are worried by, including teachers. But just because many people cannot imagine any workers other than teachers who are working without PPE doesn’t mean that there aren’t other professions working outside their comfort zones. Everyone should be entitled to work in a respectful and safe environment, but the current world climate makes that harder for some jobs than for others.

My own working environment has changed beyond all recognition this year. I signed up over 20 years ago to fly people on their holidays and business trips, but somehow this year it has morphed into a profession where I’ve been expected to fly over conflict zones and into Covid hotspots to repatriate people who find themselves stuck and to bring back essential supplies. It’s not exactly how I expected to find myself at work, but frankly I am grateful still to have a job in a critically failing industry and am grateful to the people who enable me to continue to work, such as the teachers who care for my children while I am at work.

This is not a time for competitive gnashing of teeth, people should be supporting each other. It is not a great time to be a teacher, but teachers don’t have the monopoly on difficult jobs atm although reading MN you would think they are the only people working in testing circumstances. The world would be a less hostile place if we all accepted that it is ok to feel worried, regardless of what your source of concern is.

@Twistered What a nasty attitude. Just to point a few thing though: younger children aren’t spreading the virus in the same way as teenagers so you are at significantly less risk just due to that. Also, not all nursery workers have worked through - ours closed and demanded full fees whilst not providing any childcare. It differed around the country. Teachers worked throughout the lockdown though, doing different things - some in school, others online and others setting and marking work.

@Twistered ‘yapping’?

Grow up.

"but I think Teachers calling for full closure look ridiculous,"

Which teachers have called for full closure?

I now have a very low opinion of teachers and their desire to actually do the job our taxes are paying them to do

No teacher has said they won't do their job.

And they are taxpayers too, towards your DH's wages.

PheasantPlucker1 It's surely, for most, just a transfer of time? If my employer wants me to take two weeks off, they have to give me two weeks notice, which I believe is pretty standard in most jobs? Perhaps it's time for teaching to come a little more into line with other professions?

I understand that the idea won't be popular with those who live for the summer but as they say, these are 'unprecedented times' and a longer winter break offers some safety for those who want less time around children during this period as transmission appears to be massively reduced in the summer.

reading MN you would think they are the only people working in testing circumstances.

No teacher has said this. They are posting on threads about schools, so, er....

I'm yet to meet a teacher who wants schools closed.

I just wish the government had listened in the summer when we were asking to put a coherent plan b into place as we could all see winter would mean more cases. Rota's, blended learning could have been planned and organised....but no. It was everyone back in and no back up plan.

And here we are. Exactly as imagined, only with no real idea as to how this is going to play out or what to do next.

@CallmeAngelina

"but I think Teachers calling for full closure look ridiculous,"

Which teachers have called for full closure?

According to the NEU over 135 thousand of them.

I think you are not considering this in the collective sense.

There are over 500,000 full time teachers in the UK.
Most will be aged 22-60, so won't include the most elderly people who are most at risk from coronavirus.
Most people aged 22-60 who get coronavirus will catch it mildly or even asymptomatically. Few will require hospitalization.

What the government is weighing up is the relative risks. A very small proportion of teachers will get coronavirus more seriously. Not that many, relatively.

The comparative long term societal and economic impact of shutting secondary schools and attempting some crap blended learning etc (we tried this already remember) is considered collectively worse than the risk to the whole teaching population as a whole.

@Twistered

Teachers have a level of protection come on.

Now my job on the other hand ... I work all day children . I've no mask or ppe. I clean their runny noses and wipe their tears. They come for a cuddle when they are upset . They sit on their favourite workers knee for a story . That's the nature of the job and we do it because to deny this when caring for children would be detrimental to their well-being.

I am fed up with you teachers yapping.
You had plenty of time off. Nursery workers and child carers had none. They worked all through the first lockdown with no ppe and will continue to do so.
Children need their education. Schools and children's settings need to be open. Your risks are low . Just stop moaning please for god's sake.

"Yapping"?

My OH teaches nine year olds who have no concept of social distance, who constantly come up to his desk for attention, and when they are struggling with their work of course he can't just leave them, he has to stand close to explain what they need to do. Last week he developed a 40+ degree fever and was so out of it I was terrified. We're now waiting for the results of his Covid test but he's almost certainly positive and he would've only caught it at school because he's been avoiding going anywhere to lessen the risk and I WFH too. But I'll tell him off for moaning and "yapping" about the risks to teachers, shall I?

Twistered Oh, and he worked every day during lockdown providing lessons for his class, as did most of his colleagues (apart from the ones who were shielding). Saying teachers had "plenty of time off" just makes you sound pig ignorant.

@Bambooble

Try working in a prison, for the Police, on a Covid ward or in a carehome - Teachers should have adequate PPE and all kids should be temperature checked when going into lessons maybe - it is not time consuming - teachers are essential workers - I work in a carehome and have tested positive for Covid twice (April and just 3 weeks ago) - we all need to get on with our jobs unless we are clinically vulnerable - I think the expression is ‘man up’.

My neighbour works in a prison, they have PPE. There are also several reports that there is less trouble in prisons now as there's less mixing, and guards are assigned to smaller groups each. Less than 30, so actually working conditions have somewhat improved for them, and there's less violence between inmates. The police have guidance and equipment to help them adhere to safety restrictions, of course that's not always possible, but there are at least attempts to keep them safe, and not all coppers are carrying out chases and arrests. Covid ward and carehomes now have PPE and things in place, unfortunately not perfect by any stretch, but seen as though there's zero way to do it remotely, there has been time and money invested into trying to make things better. Clinically vulnerable teachers are still expected in schools, any others?

I commented that teachers need adequate PPE - Incidentally, ALL public facing roles deal with challenging behaviour regularly - I know what a demanding job teaching is (I was a secondary school TA for 14 years, my Mum is a retired teacher and a couple of my best mates teach). Teachers have to understand and acknowledge the public mood - the mood of those whose kids you teach and their very real concerns about what is increasingly looking like a stop-start education at a time when kids need continuity, discipline and the support of their peers and the wider education community.

Like I said in a previous post - come to an arrangement that keeps kids in educatiom settings for even 50% of the time (ffs), demand and ensure adequate PPE, demand regular temperature testing. Stop running scared ffs.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I think you are not considering this in the collective sense.

There are over 500,000 full time teachers in the UK.
Most will be aged 22-60, so won't include the most elderly people who are most at risk from coronavirus.
Most people aged 22-60 who get coronavirus will catch it mildly or even asymptomatically. Few will require hospitalization.

What the government is weighing up is the relative risks. A very small proportion of teachers will get coronavirus more seriously. Not that many, relatively.

The comparative long term societal and economic impact of shutting secondary schools and attempting some crap blended learning etc (we tried this already remember) is considered collectively worse than the risk to the whole teaching population as a whole.

Excellent comment - absolutely spot on.

I would like to see a mixture of some home study, some school for those old enough not to need supervision. Thins out the numbers, reduces the risks.