AIBU or are the lives of school staff worthless?

[Witchcraftandhokum]

I fully appreciate that the education and mental well-being of children is important but why does it trump the physical and mental health of school staff? The facts are simple, people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise, unless you work in education or the NHS who are provided with effective PPE.

On a daily basis I am expected to supervise the diner where 150 students eat lunch (obviously mask free) if I wish to eat I am also mask free. I have to supervise the same 150 children in narrow corridors. For this pupils are supposed to wear masks but there are a number who refuse (not the students who are exempt) and we cannot enforce it. We hand out hundreds of masks per week to students whose parents don't ensure they have one with them.

We are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms but are given visors which aren't as effective. The children are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. None of this are rules imposed by the school but are in-line with the government guidance.

We have students who say they have developed a cough knowing we have to send them home, we cannot make the decision as to whether they are lying or not, but I've been verbally abused by parents calling me "fucking stupid" for not knowing when a child is lying.

Before half-term we had 25% of staff off sick as they had tested positive (including myself). There are many experts stating schools should be shut but Boris has done a fantastic job of insinuating that school staff are lazy and don't want to work, and the early response to the unions concerns shows that this is working. I've never suffered with stress or anxiety but the thought of a return to school tomorrow is making me feel sick.

Talking to colleagues who work in other schools it appears my experience is not unusual. So AIBU to think that this government doesn't give a shiny shit about school staff.

@Stripesnomore I know nurses, retail workers, taxi drivers, security guards (I don't know any factory workers personally, not many in my area). All of them are wearing masks and 90% of the people they are around all day are wearing masks unless they are outdoors (one of the security guards). They also don't have to read thread after thread shitting on them if they ask for better protection at work. But if you want to try and make it a class issue by all means do so (though my dad was a plasterer and my mum was a SAHM but whatever). Way to spectacularly miss the point. I don't know a single teacher who wants schools closed, not a single one. We just want to be able to do our jobs more safely.

@Stripesnomore

‘we all need to get on with our jobs unless we are clinically vulnerable’

The clinically vulnerable and shielding group are both currently in the work place. The vulnerable group were throughout the whole of the previous lockdown.

My understanding is that they don’t have to be - especially in public facing roles - at my workplace (carehome) several vulnerable staff were furloughed and at my old workplace (a secondary school) the same applies - I do believe if you’re fit and healthy, you should be at school teaching - The Government clearly needs to sit down for talks with the teaching unions and agree on arrangements that make staff feel safer - rotation of kids, visors, temperature checks ...

Cat girl, it isn’t safe for anyone to go to work. Some workers, including some teachers, are going to die.

But it is impossible for everyone to give up working.

The more people who don’t work the safer it is for key workers, as they reduce the spread, public transport use etc. The question is whether teachers really need to be in work at all, and if they do, can schools be made lower risk for them.

I don’t think school staff are asking to stay home but to work in adequately sized rooms with proper social distancing, proper ventilation so they aren’t freezing with open windows all winter, PPE for medical issues, cleaners to do the cleaning, everybody wearing masks ...

Are we agreed that is what all school staff should get?

Interestingly an NHS service my dc use haven’t done face to face since the last lock down. The reason I was given was lack of adequately sized rooms for social distancing or time for cleaners to clean between patients. When I suggested they clean their table and door handle themselves alongside the fact many schools were running sessions for individual kids in rooms no bigger than broom cupboards and whole classes of 30 in rooms with zero social distancing nervous coughing started instead of a reply.

@Witchcraftandhokum - you have 15 pages... but really you have already answered your own question in your post:

it's 150 (children) : 1 (you) .

I do think, in part, teachers are more likely to be middle class educated individuals who feel hard done by. Being lumped with the retail workers, factory workers etc is troubling them when they are mostly surrounded by those in well earning other middle class professions in their personal life, most of whom are working from home. They therefore think they’ve really had the worst possible deal. Understandably.

Off the top of my head, other professions at risk currently -

• supermarket And retail workers (if you think the British public socially distance, wear masks correctly and sanitise to good levels, you’re deluded)
• police officers (no PPE, often have to touch other adults regularly and enter homes, no social distancing there, not to mention the attacks)
• call centre and office staff (working in offices, many without ventilation, masks or regular cleaning)
• factory workers (crammed in together, often without PPE hence the many many outbreaks)
• social workers (entering numerous homes, cleanliness, social distancing, PPE not guaranteed)
• Carers, nurses, doctors (working in care homes or hospitals with covid positive patients, caring from them at the closest possible levels. Covid positive patients often don’t wear masks due to breathing issues)
• bin men (touching thousands of bins that have been touched by thousands of people)
• childcare professions (nursery workers, after school club workers, Childminder’s)
• Waitresses, lifeguards, firefighters, librarians, hotel workers, cleaners, receptionists...

It’s not a race to the bottom but it’s fascinating that some teachers seem to think they are ‘above’ this sort of thing.

Yes they should be allowed to wear PPE but calling for all schools to close feels like a privileged middle class ‘I’m better than this’ attitude.

Campaign for PPE and I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t be with you on that, campaigning for them to close is ridiculous.

Before I get flamed, I know not all teachers fit into this category but there is a very obvious pattern.

That and teachers know they will get full pay regardless.

‘My understanding is that they don’t have to be.’

No. I am in the vulnerable group and have had to work in retail throughout. I checked with HR and the union and there was no exemption. I have colleagues in the shielding group and they had to return to work when the government regulations changed.

Are any teachers in support of holiday now but less in spring/summer?

It’s not a race to the bottom but it’s fascinating that some teachers seem to think they are ‘above’ this sort of thing.

They don't. But whenever it's brought up people say well no you are fine because x, y, z have to go to work too, others whataboutery is actually what makes it seem that way because for some reason they cannot accept that teachers should be offered more protection. Few are willing schools to close, but many want something in place, not just for them, but the effect will be a reduction in numbers that means stuff can open again etc.

I do think, in part, teachers are more likely to be middle class educated individuals who feel hard done by. Being lumped with the retail workers, factory workers etc is troubling them when they are mostly surrounded by those in well earning other middle class

What a load of horse shit. Perhaps historically that was the case, it isn't at all now, teachers are from all walks of life.

@Mudlark1ng

I don’t think school staff are asking to stay home but to work in adequately sized rooms with proper social distancing, proper ventilation so they aren’t freezing with open windows all winter, PPE for medical issues, cleaners to do the cleaning, everybody wearing masks ...

Are we agreed that is what all school staff should get?

Interestingly an NHS service my dc use haven’t done face to face since the last lock down. The reason I was given was lack of adequately sized rooms for social distancing or time for cleaners to clean between patients. When I suggested they clean their table and door handle themselves alongside the fact many schools were running sessions for individual kids in rooms no bigger than broom cupboards and whole classes of 30 in rooms with zero social distancing nervous coughing started instead of a reply.

We regularly clean our own offices, desks and meeting rooms in the NHS. Office space does not get cleaned routinely like clinical spaces do.

In my previous team we had to get our own mops to clean the floor in the office otherwise it would never have been done, and I wish I was joking!

If anybody really thinks the protection being rolled out to retail workers makes a blind bit of difference when dealing with hundreds of random strangers a day is effective then they’re a fool.

It is most unusual to see teachers being lumped in with the always considered expendable retail workers though.

CAMHs doesn’t. Re the middle class thing schools employ staff on a whole range of wages.

It’s all a moot point anyway, with the shitty conditions many are working in once Covid hits they’ll close anyway.

‘What a load of horse shit. Perhaps historically that was the case, it isn't at all now, teachers are from all walks of life.‘

Teaching has become more middle class over time. Historically the working class were taught by teachers from working class backgrounds, but increasingly teachers are the children of middle class professionals and married to middle class professionals.

Retired teachers in my family were from working class families and married to manual labourers, which was common at the time. It isn’t now.

It depends if you class anyone with a degree as middle class, I certainly wouldn't.

The difference with retail is you are not sat next to possibly infected people all day. We are serving lunches in these rooms and on wet days are squashed in these rooms all day. It’s not a 10 min shopping experience.

Some total and utter idiots on this thread.

OP I sympathise greatly. I am a secondary school teacher in a school of almost 2000 students. It is unsafe. It is impossible to social distance, we aren’t allowed masks. It is a ludicrous situation and it makes me so angry to read comments about us just getting on with it. How dare people view our safety with so little regard.

Thank you to all those who understand and those who appreciate that teaching is just so difficult at the moment.

Good will is running very low in schools right now.

Ah this infuriated me sometimes - ‘teachers had the chance to prove it could be done from home and failed’
Not sure what leafy suburbs most of mumsnet live in, but I teach in a secondary school in a very deprived area. We gave out every single chrome book in the school (350+)
We had several issues : one was that households often had just one device, often between several siblings and a parent. Many houses had none, some had unreliable/no WiFi.
The shared devices meant online lessons were poorly attended.
They’d been told exams were cancelled = motivation at zero.
Not all staff has devices that could reliably access the school system due to stupid corporate requirements.
Parental support was poor - we surveyed ours and for every ‘you’re not teaching enough’ we got 100 ‘it’s too much, it’s too hard, I can’t make them do it, they don’t want to do it and that’s fine by me.

So yeah, I posted lessons, videos, assignments, delivered ‘live’ lessons (to the only 2 kids who showed up, and then only after I moved them to the afternoon so they were awake).
At best I got 20% responding. Often less than 10%.

@Witchcraftandhokum I just wanted to say, i’m sorry you aren’t being looked after as well as you should (and all school staff) be.
I had to stop reading after page 3 because of some of the comments, please try to remember to not everyone is a knobhead, and ppl do care!

I clean my own computer area on the shop floor, as well as all the stock shelves and displays. I spend one third of every shift cleaning up after customers. As well as opening/moving stock, customers leave half eaten food, used tissues, used sanitary towels among the stock. Adults have literally shit on the shop floor several times in the past couple of years.

We don’t have to clean the toilets but the cleaners regularly clean semen off mirrors in there.

Most people are lovely, but if you work with the public you work with everyone - sex offenders, people who aren’t really capable of functioning in public but have no choice or they will starve, people who can’t control their anger, ill equipped children caring for vulnerable adults, violent offenders.

And there are far more difficult jobs to be in- train conductors, a&e staff, taxi drivers.

And Covid is stressing out an already struggling public more.

I work in a busy supermarket. I'm pregnant. I'd love to be sent home but I'm not.

‘The difference with retail is you are not sat next to possibly infected people all day. We are serving lunches in these rooms and on wet days are squashed in these rooms all day. It’s not a 10 min shopping experience.‘

No. I am stood next to people all day, not sat. It isn’t a 10 min shopping experience for me. I am at work all day.

You understand that the risk of standing next to hundreds of different people over a working day isn’t less than standing next to the same smaller number? It’s just less possible to work out who infected you, making track and trace pointless in such circumstances.

School staff are very highly valued which is why the schools are staying open. Yes it seems like they are being put at risk but they are needed just like NHS, shops, warehouse staff, delivery drivers etc....

I have every sympathy. Your health and safety have not been prioritised, and you have every right to be angry about this. However, you're wrong to think that teachers are the only ones being forced to put themselves at risk. There are plenty of other roles where the risks are similar...including some of my colleagues who work with very vulnerable children. No PPE, no social distancing.

The risk could be lessened though by closing schools now but open for longer over spring/summer.

"‘teachers had the chance to prove it could be done from home and failed’"
I think you mean the Government had the chance and fucked up. And are still fucking up.