AIBU or are the lives of school staff worthless?

[Witchcraftandhokum]

I fully appreciate that the education and mental well-being of children is important but why does it trump the physical and mental health of school staff? The facts are simple, people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise, unless you work in education or the NHS who are provided with effective PPE.

On a daily basis I am expected to supervise the diner where 150 students eat lunch (obviously mask free) if I wish to eat I am also mask free. I have to supervise the same 150 children in narrow corridors. For this pupils are supposed to wear masks but there are a number who refuse (not the students who are exempt) and we cannot enforce it. We hand out hundreds of masks per week to students whose parents don't ensure they have one with them.

We are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms but are given visors which aren't as effective. The children are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. None of this are rules imposed by the school but are in-line with the government guidance.

We have students who say they have developed a cough knowing we have to send them home, we cannot make the decision as to whether they are lying or not, but I've been verbally abused by parents calling me "fucking stupid" for not knowing when a child is lying.

Before half-term we had 25% of staff off sick as they had tested positive (including myself). There are many experts stating schools should be shut but Boris has done a fantastic job of insinuating that school staff are lazy and don't want to work, and the early response to the unions concerns shows that this is working. I've never suffered with stress or anxiety but the thought of a return to school tomorrow is making me feel sick.

Talking to colleagues who work in other schools it appears my experience is not unusual. So AIBU to think that this government doesn't give a shiny shit about school staff.

@Sugarhouse

Yes, most of the people dying are over life expectancy but that really isn't the case when it comes to long Covid. I have this, and it's very debilitating. I'm 51 and already had CFS as a result of pneumonia last year, but a lot of younger and very fit people have been struck down by it.

I'm not saying that schools shouldn't stay open. The last thing I would want would be for my DDs to be unable to go to school after months of school closures earlier in the year. But the concerns of teachers and other school staff should be listened to without them being made to feel that they're just 'whining'.

@Aragog

Elsewyre

Can you now find an updated version of your data?

That's the one that was knocking around from before the summer, when schools were open under very different rules, with half classes, SDing and increased outdoor time.

Because the data from the autumn term is somewhat different from what I've seen.

No fancy graphs but education is still way down compare to2vefy other sector on the ons site.

They were saying kids didnt spread it very well to adults a few months back on th news dont know if that's still th opinion

@caringcarer

Stop whining many others continue to work and provide own mask and hand gel/disinfectant wipes. Supermarket staff have hundreds of people walking around them and some refusing to wear masks every day, chemist also have many people in and out again including those refusing to wear a mask or even a visor. One of my sons is a delivery driver taking food to hospitals and this includes loading in busy warehouse and unloading at hospital so will continue to work. He buys his own antiviral wipes to clean his lorry and handles of pump truck used for loading and his own masks and gloves The other one works in a factory with 700 other people. He wears a mask all day he pays for himself and washes his hands every 2 hours and uses hand gel. He does not use canteen atm. Both shower immediately they return home and clothing in washing machine. They also take temperature twice each day when they leave house and return home. They do this as their stepdad is immunosuppressed and asthmatic and got sheltering letter in March and both boys still lives at home. Working in a school I expect your hand gel will be provided free of charge. You can wash your hands every couple of hours. Buy yourself a face mask and carry on like millions of others will do. You can't do your job from home so you need to go out to work. I hope the tax people look carefully at request to pay 80 per cent of salary and if a request is sent in from schools, construction, trades people or others who could crack on they will scrutinise why they can't continue working. People who previously got shielding letters fair enough for them to stay home. My dd lost her job in July and do did many others. If you don't want to go out to work, hand your notice in. I am sure there are many unemployed people who would be glad to take on your job.

You are comparing oranges and apples. I am a reception teacher and mask or no mask I'm still in a position where I have children coughing near my face, holding my hand, I have to help them do their coats, peel their oranges, wipe their noses. The jobs you have described do not have this close contact. As the OP has said NO other profession is being asked to come into very close contact with over 30 people on a daily basis without PPE.

Also you should be campaining more for kids to wearing masks as you wearing one won't protect you
The kids wearing them may help protect you

@roxyfoxy89 what about a police officer they don't always have a mask on and may come into contact with people that spit at them and also many people in a week

@Strawberry4561

I’ve not seen the guidance saying teachers shouldn’t wear masks, but regardless of what the guidance says, why don’t you just wear one?! What is the headteacher really going to do? There’s a teacher shortage, they’re not going to sack you. Even better, why don’t you get a group of teachers to band together and wear them?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-in-education/face-coverings-in-education

^Gov guidance says no where teachers shouldn't wear masks.

It even says its guidance not mandatory but that staff should wear them when social distancing isn't possible.

No idea where people are getting this not allowed to wear them from.

Can anyone name any other profession where the workforce are customer-facing 5 days a week, having daily face to face contact with hundreds of people (who generally ‘don’t get’ social distancing) without PPE Most of the time. Many have to routinely treat students who feel unwell and have been sent in by parents anyway. That’s teachers. Anyone who has responded to this thread to imply we are all whinging and need to get on with it, haven’t thought that through. You’ve accepted the spin from government and the Tory tabloids. Right at the start a rota system in secondaries (where half the kids would be out at any one time, making social distancing actually possible) would have kept everyone safer but the government wouldn’t accept it. Doesn’t matter if you’re SLT or not (I am) we are all expected to follow guidance that dictates masks are not necessary in class, and gives very little support to school staff.

[quote timeforanewstart]@roxyfoxy89 what about a police officer they don't always have a mask on and may come into contact with people that spit at them and also many people in a week [/quote]
I do see what you're saying, and I have the utmost respect for people in the policing profession. I suppose that in my head, the chance of a police officer coming into extremely close proximity with 30 different people, without a mask, indoors for 7 hours a day is slim. As a reception teacher the chance is 100%! Perhaps I'm ignorant as I don't actually know any police officers!

@Elsewyre

I think the main concern is for teachers in secondary schools. Teenagers are asymptomatic mostly and transmit the virus like adults. Teachers will have face to face lessons with around 150 children every day.

Primary children really don't appear to transmit the virus much at all (though it's hard to believe that they don't at all). My DD2 (8) had what was almost certainly the virus at the same time when I first caught it (probably from the same location), but my DH didn't catch it from her, despite him doing most of the care, as I wasn't well myself.

I’m not sure where the idea that police officers can’t insist that a criminal wear a mask while they are chasing them down means that teachers shouldn’t expect mask-wearing where it is perfectly possible (as demonstrated in many other countries).

This is getting ridiculous. There are obviously huge numbers of customer facing roles where staff come into contact with thousands of people, hundreds of whom don’t ‘get’ social distancing, or think corona is a made up conspiracy, who are offended by attempt to social distance, who are angry, confrontational or violent and who we can’t discipline. One of my colleagues was attacked by a man with a hammer.

I have a great deal of sympathy for teachers and think they are being treated unfairly, but the misrepresentation of what other key workers deal with isn’t helping people understand your situation better.

Part of the reason why workers get treated poorly is because there is no solidarity between people in different sectors.

@Mittens030869 I’m sorry you a struggling I do feel for you and anyone who is suffering long term affects and hope you will feel better soon. My point I was trying to make though is the point of lockdown is not to stop every single person catching it on an individual level but to slow the spread. It’s not about one person being less important than another because they still have to work it’s about society as a whole. I do agree the op should be allowed to wear a mask though and if in secondary school surely distancing could be enforceable but school closure in my opinion is too far.

@Witchcraftandhokum

I fully appreciate that the education and mental well-being of children is important but why does it trump the physical and mental health of school staff? The facts are simple, people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise, unless you work in education or the NHS who are provided with effective PPE.

On a daily basis I am expected to supervise the diner where 150 students eat lunch (obviously mask free) if I wish to eat I am also mask free. I have to supervise the same 150 children in narrow corridors. For this pupils are supposed to wear masks but there are a number who refuse (not the students who are exempt) and we cannot enforce it. We hand out hundreds of masks per week to students whose parents don't ensure they have one with them.

We are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms but are given visors which aren't as effective. The children are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. None of this are rules imposed by the school but are in-line with the government guidance.

We have students who say they have developed a cough knowing we have to send them home, we cannot make the decision as to whether they are lying or not, but I've been verbally abused by parents calling me "fucking stupid" for not knowing when a child is lying.

Before half-term we had 25% of staff off sick as they had tested positive (including myself). There are many experts stating schools should be shut but Boris has done a fantastic job of insinuating that school staff are lazy and don't want to work, and the early response to the unions concerns shows that this is working. I've never suffered with stress or anxiety but the thought of a return to school tomorrow is making me feel sick.

Talking to colleagues who work in other schools it appears my experience is not unusual. So AIBU to think that this government doesn't give a shiny shit about school staff.

They don't give a shit about anyone. I have been working all through lockdown, covid has been through are office, impossible to social distance. No one cares. I work for NHS.

I'm yet to find teachers that want schools closed unless it's a last resort. We all know kids are best there and teaching and learning is better.

However, schools (particularly secondary) are not Covid safe.

So, the government needs to allow and help schools to become so. Whether that means rotas, blended learning or whatever, this situation isn't going away and the negative effects need better mitigation.

people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise

No they’re not. People are being told to stay at home so that the NHS don’t become overwhelmed with cases.

[quote Mittens030869]@Elsewyre

I think the main concern is for teachers in secondary schools. Teenagers are asymptomatic mostly and transmit the virus like adults. Teachers will have face to face lessons with around 150 children every day.

Primary children really don't appear to transmit the virus much at all (though it's hard to believe that they don't at all). My DD2 (8) had what was almost certainly the virus at the same time when I first caught it (probably from the same location), but my DH didn't catch it from her, despite him doing most of the care, as I wasn't well myself.

[/quote]
Teenagers wear masks

I feel terrible for any teacher at this time. My lovely friend quit her teaching job to stay at home as she did not feel safe.

[quote Longwhiskers14]I've just seen this on another website. This hasn't been widely reported yet, but on the Friday night schools broke up for half term, the Department for Education told secondary schools within Tier 2 that they should switch to a rota system to limit those on site and for Tier 3 the advice is even stricter: Tier 3 requires secondary schools and FE colleges to limit on-site attendance to just vulnerable children and young people, the children of critical workers and selected year groups. So while the rest of you bitch and moan because teachers dare voice their fears that it's unsafe in the classroom, the actual Govt dept responsible for schools is stating here in black and white that it knows how risky it is.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-schools-can-plan-for-tier-2-local-restrictions/how-schools-can-plan-for-tier-2-local-restrictions[/quote]
This was published in August just before schools went back and has been conveniently ignored.

pheasantplucker1

In answer to your question, lawyers, judges, magistrates and others speaking in court in courtrooms across the country every single day right through lockdown, even when teachers were working from home.

You won't see any threads about it though because it's not a popular topic like schools.

Don't forget criminal courts are public places anyone is entitled to wander into to observe proceedings, without a mask.

"You won't see any threads about it though because it's not a popular topic like schools."
Well, this is predominantly a parenting site, so obviously schools are going to feature heavily.

@eastegg yes my dad is a judge in his 60s and has been working (and catching the train to work) throughout. He doesn't like the risk but knows the importance of his job. He has also got to grips with all kinds of new technology in order that some types of hearing could happen online.

Branaluse the message from the purchase dds schools is very much send them to in with colds etc, don't send in with the 3 covid symptoms...

No inclusion of the extra symptoms children display. We are actually in a state of feeling embarrassed to get tests infact because of the tests fiasco.

I wasn’t going to reply as you’re clearly either a) goady, b) ignorant, or c) unpleasant and lacking empathy. . .

But, go away. Just. Go. Away. We’re tired of this kind of shit.
I’m more than happy to do the job I’m paid for, but my job description certainly doesn’t include putting my own and my family’s health at risk on a daily basis. We’re actually not allowed PPE. How is that okay? How is that not an infringement of human rights?

We’re angry, we’re stressed, and we’re justified in feeling this way.

Sorry, that was a failed reply to NannyGythaOgg. Not sure what happened.

I think this mask wearing isn't as good as they make out (and yes I do wear one when I'm supposed to).
The schools that do not insist on mask wearing in our area have had lower to no cases Covid than the ones that do.
Teachers keep saying they need to wear masks but it's the children who need to.
I have seen police and support workers (for adults with SEN) without masks, presumably because they aren't allowed to and they are also in close con8.
Unfortunately it's part of life now but I still think teachers would be better off trying to get it so children wear masks (although as I said I think masks are overrated).