AIBU or are the lives of school staff worthless?

[Witchcraftandhokum]

I fully appreciate that the education and mental well-being of children is important but why does it trump the physical and mental health of school staff? The facts are simple, people are being told to stay at home because it is unsafe to do otherwise, unless you work in education or the NHS who are provided with effective PPE.

On a daily basis I am expected to supervise the diner where 150 students eat lunch (obviously mask free) if I wish to eat I am also mask free. I have to supervise the same 150 children in narrow corridors. For this pupils are supposed to wear masks but there are a number who refuse (not the students who are exempt) and we cannot enforce it. We hand out hundreds of masks per week to students whose parents don't ensure they have one with them.

We are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms but are given visors which aren't as effective. The children are not allowed to wear masks in classrooms. None of this are rules imposed by the school but are in-line with the government guidance.

We have students who say they have developed a cough knowing we have to send them home, we cannot make the decision as to whether they are lying or not, but I've been verbally abused by parents calling me "fucking stupid" for not knowing when a child is lying.

Before half-term we had 25% of staff off sick as they had tested positive (including myself). There are many experts stating schools should be shut but Boris has done a fantastic job of insinuating that school staff are lazy and don't want to work, and the early response to the unions concerns shows that this is working. I've never suffered with stress or anxiety but the thought of a return to school tomorrow is making me feel sick.

Talking to colleagues who work in other schools it appears my experience is not unusual. So AIBU to think that this government doesn't give a shiny shit about school staff.

Supermarket workers aren’t stuck in tiny poor ventilated freezing rooms with 30 children.

We are doing medical care, cleaning loos, tlc on top of teaching. Zero PPE.

A lot of the NHS aren’t doing face to face at all. Supermarkets have Perspex booths. Why aren’t we getting the same?

@rawlikesushi

I'm a teacher and I think we just have to get on with it as safely as we can.

Everyone is being told to wfh unless their work can't be done from home, and ours can't.

At my school the teacher stands behind a line, giving a 2m distance from the pupils, and all windows open. I can wear a visor if I want to, and lots of staff do. The caretaker comes in and cleans contact points regularly. There's hand sanitiser everywhere and the pupils use it every time they enter/leave a classroom.

I feel safe. As safe as a supermarket worker, or my sister who works in a factory, or my mum who is a childminder anyway. It's not ideal but if staff don't feel safe then SLT need to find a way to sort that out.

This. This sounds like my DS's school and is organised and as safe as it can be. As you say, supermarket workers and carers on minimum wage are in a similar position.

@loulouljh

I think to be honest you need to be grateful for a job. So many people are losing theirs and really struggling financially. We are all having to take risks..you have to suck it up or leave and let someone else have the job..I imagine it will be snapped up.

How ridiculous

No staff tested positive in my daughter's large secondary school and only one child. It is a London school.
My company will not close and the majority travels to work by public transport. Nobody has been ill for months.
But our sales will be affected by lockdown and if it is extended beyond 2 December there will be redundancies.

It is impossible to socially distance in primary schools.

I dont think anyone thinks teachers lives are worthless.
most teachers I know and have spoken to want schools to be open.
It is seen by most people as an essential service. The fact that teachers arent provided with proper PPE or allowed to use it is not our fault either. I can see why a lot of schools want it to all be as normal as possible for the children, but maybe that needs to be rethought if its causing too much anxiety amongst teachers?

I think parents need to do their bit. Not send kids in with colds etc. I think daily temperature checks should be done at the gate, or maybe some form of blended learning, but while schools are open, I will continue to send mine in, as it was massively difficult for mine to settle back this year and has only just started to settle.

I dont think teachers lives are worthless, or retail staffs lives, or takeaway restaurants staff, or NHS staff or anyones. I do however think that we cannot just shut down essential services such as education. Children have sacrificed enough already.
its not as if parents arent also at risk from schools going back.
I just find the whole thing upsetting, but I dont think you need to act like noone cares about teachers, as many many people have also not been able to lockdown.

Supermarket workers are not in a similar position and there are plenty of school workers on minimum wage.

So should school staff refuse to work unless in large rooms with Perspex boxes, do zero cleaning and socially distance at all times?

If so, the maj will close.

@WhyNotMe40

Once more for those at the back teachers in England are NOT PERMITTED to wear masks in the classroom. No screens either. Or windows that open in a significant number of classrooms. It would be illegal in any other workplace under H&S.

Different schools must be using their own rules, or common sense then - my DC's school allow teachers to wear masks if they wish, only use classrooms with opening windows and encourage kids to wear extra layers so windows can be kept open through the colder weather, and have given children 10 minute tasks to do at the start of every lesson to give teachers the time to move between classes and wipe their area down. It's a shame if other schools aren't taking this approach, as no one should be denied the option of wearing PPE.

‘Supermarket workers are not in a similar position and there are plenty of school workers on minimum wage.

So should school staff refuse to work unless in large rooms with Perspex boxes, do zero cleaning and socially distance at all times?

If so, the maj will close.‘

Most supermarket workers are not in a Perspex box, spend a large proportion of their time cleaning and tidying stock and many customers are not following social distancing rules. About a quarter of customers not in masks - 500 of the 2,000 a day. And walking right up to you in narrow aisles.

Plus most customers are adults - a far higher risk of aggression and serious physical violence. Attacks have doubled during the pandemic.

Are NHS and supermarket workers expected to clean and spend all day in tiny freezing rooms with 30 children unable to socially distance?

No they are not.

Some sectors of the NHS( CAMHs looking at you) refuse to be in a room with 1 child let alone 30 and are doing zero face to face. Gps....

Horrible that you feel so unprotected. This should not be allowed either.

*Waveysnail

Would u be shouting to close the schools if you were not going to be paid while schools closed?*

No, but I’d be happy to accept 80%.

I’ve not seen the guidance saying teachers shouldn’t wear masks, but regardless of what the guidance says, why don’t you just wear one?! What is the headteacher really going to do? There’s a teacher shortage, they’re not going to sack you. Even better, why don’t you get a group of teachers to band together and wear them?

My comment was to the supermarket worker. I haven't mastered naming posters yet.

I've just seen this on another website. This hasn't been widely reported yet, but on the Friday night schools broke up for half term, the Department for Education told secondary schools within Tier 2 that they should switch to a rota system to limit those on site and for Tier 3 the advice is even stricter: Tier 3 requires secondary schools and FE colleges to limit on-site attendance to just vulnerable children and young people, the children of critical workers and selected year groups. So while the rest of you bitch and moan because teachers dare voice their fears that it's unsafe in the classroom, the actual Govt dept responsible for schools is stating here in black and white that it knows how risky it is.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-schools-can-plan-for-tier-2-local-restrictions/how-schools-can-plan-for-tier-2-local-restrictions

@Strawberry4561

I’ve not seen the guidance saying teachers shouldn’t wear masks, but regardless of what the guidance says, why don’t you just wear one?! What is the headteacher really going to do? There’s a teacher shortage, they’re not going to sack you. Even better, why don’t you get a group of teachers to band together and wear them?

It was linked to on this thread. I expect most people are fairly wary of pissing their bosses off.

I left teaching because of attitudes like this seen on the thread.
Yanbu op....and i am now training for NHS and we have good ppe although I think more needs to be done.

@Mudlark1ng

Supermarket workers aren’t stuck in tiny poor ventilated freezing rooms with 30 children.

We are doing medical care, cleaning loos, tlc on top of teaching. Zero PPE.

A lot of the NHS aren’t doing face to face at all. Supermarkets have Perspex booths. Why aren’t we getting the same?

Supermarket staff operating a till might be in a Perspex booth, but they are dealing with thousands of people, handling thousands of products that have been touched by lots of people.

And they won't necessarily spend a whole shift on a till. They'll also be restocking shelves and other jobs on the shop floor, or with colleagues in the back rooms.

I don't think it's helpful to compare jobs really, as the expectations for each are so different. Making your job as safe as it can be - not completely risk-free because that's not possible - should be the goal imo and teachers being told not to wear masks, or being forced to work in unventilated classrooms, or whatever, need to show SLT the latest government guidance.

I’m sorry but yes you are being unreasonable in my opinion . We are not in lockdown because it isn’t safe we are in lockdown to protect the nhs from being overwhelmed. The overwhelming majority of people dying are over the average life expectancy. Of course there is a risk but a fairly small one just as everyday we face risk as we go about our normal lives. I will be off work from Thursday and I’m not happy I’d much rather be there I actually don’t understand why people who are able to keep working aren’t Feeling a sense of relief that you are in a secure job . We need to keep catching this virus just at a rate that people are able to get treatment or a vaccine is found lockdown is only slowing it down temporarily. I say this as someone who was terrified at the start of all this and who’s two year old most probably had it in March quite seriously but we must look at the bigger picture and we now have better treatment and no the risks for the majority are small. Iv got to say I think teachers may think differently if they were in a job at major risk of redundancy like myself and my husband with two tiny children to support. Also we don’t hear the supermarket staff complaining and they are on far less pay and have no alternative but to carry on.

Stop whining many others continue to work and provide own mask and hand gel/disinfectant wipes. Supermarket staff have hundreds of people walking around them and some refusing to wear masks every day, chemist also have many people in and out again including those refusing to wear a mask or even a visor. One of my sons is a delivery driver taking food to hospitals and this includes loading in busy warehouse and unloading at hospital so will continue to work. He buys his own antiviral wipes to clean his lorry and handles of pump truck used for loading and his own masks and gloves The other one works in a factory with 700 other people. He wears a mask all day he pays for himself and washes his hands every 2 hours and uses hand gel. He does not use canteen atm. Both shower immediately they return home and clothing in washing machine. They also take temperature twice each day when they leave house and return home. They do this as their stepdad is immunosuppressed and asthmatic and got sheltering letter in March and both boys still lives at home. Working in a school I expect your hand gel will be provided free of charge. You can wash your hands every couple of hours. Buy yourself a face mask and carry on like millions of others will do. You can't do your job from home so you need to go out to work. I hope the tax people look carefully at request to pay 80 per cent of salary and if a request is sent in from schools, construction, trades people or others who could crack on they will scrutinise why they can't continue working. People who previously got shielding letters fair enough for them to stay home. My dd lost her job in July and do did many others. If you don't want to go out to work, hand your notice in. I am sure there are many unemployed people who would be glad to take on your job.

I think secondary teachers should be able to wear masks and other PPE if they need to.

The kids in my DD’s secondary school are now wearing masks and coping fine.

I’m afraid I don’t think it’s a good idea in primary school, and the evidence is that young kids are not spreading it much. Visors would be better than masks - my counsellor wears one and it doesn’t really impact at all.

By all means teachers should be allowed - maybe should have to - wear them in the staff room and other adult only spaces. And it would make sense if food preparation staff wore them.

But I don’t think schools should close. As others have said, education is an essential service - probably the most essential as EVERYONE needs it at some point in their life, no exceptions. I do feel for teachers but I don’t think this is a wrong decision.

The police are not able to wear masks in many situations , until a month or so ago waitresses , supermarket assistants etc were not wearing masks
Some teachers say they don't want to wear masks apparently
But why aren'y unions pushing for masks isn't that what they are for

@caringcarer

Stop whining many others continue to work and provide own mask and hand gel/disinfectant wipes. Supermarket staff have hundreds of people walking around them and some refusing to wear masks every day, chemist also have many people in and out again including those refusing to wear a mask or even a visor. One of my sons is a delivery driver taking food to hospitals and this includes loading in busy warehouse and unloading at hospital so will continue to work. He buys his own antiviral wipes to clean his lorry and handles of pump truck used for loading and his own masks and gloves The other one works in a factory with 700 other people. He wears a mask all day he pays for himself and washes his hands every 2 hours and uses hand gel. He does not use canteen atm. Both shower immediately they return home and clothing in washing machine. They also take temperature twice each day when they leave house and return home. They do this as their stepdad is immunosuppressed and asthmatic and got sheltering letter in March and both boys still lives at home. Working in a school I expect your hand gel will be provided free of charge. You can wash your hands every couple of hours. Buy yourself a face mask and carry on like millions of others will do. You can't do your job from home so you need to go out to work. I hope the tax people look carefully at request to pay 80 per cent of salary and if a request is sent in from schools, construction, trades people or others who could crack on they will scrutinise why they can't continue working. People who previously got shielding letters fair enough for them to stay home. My dd lost her job in July and do did many others. If you don't want to go out to work, hand your notice in. I am sure there are many unemployed people who would be glad to take on your job.

Nice

I will say though I didn’t realise you aren't allowed to wear masks and should absolutely be allowed to if you wish. My sons teacher wears a mask when the parents are around so I assumed that she would be able to if she wanted all the time.

Re : masks at my sons school masks aren't compulsory but they can wear one if they wish so are the schools breaking rules saying this ?
The teachers also do stand 2 m away ( secondary so they can maintain) kids have to sanitise in way in and out of classroom so why is it some schools can take these measures but other schools teachers are claiming none is being taken , write to your mp and unions more effective than writing on mumsnet surely