If you're in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, do you still feel part of a 'united' kingdom?

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

I'm in Wales, with family in England. Obviously I've always been aware of the divide (with some aspects more divided than others) but I feel increasingly like I don't even recognise England. It doesn't sound safe, the government is so chaotic it's not even funny any more, and now yesterday. Does anyone else feel like England's handling of the pandemic will permanently and fundamentally change the dynamics of the UK?

Don’t even get me started on NI. You guys have a great chance to break away relatively cleanly, I hope you do it as soon as you can

I can' wait to hear how you think this is possible?

Don’t even get me started on NI. You guys have a great chance to break away relatively cleanly, I hope you do it as soon as you can.

I'm aghast that anyone in the UK could be so shockingly oblivious to the situation in NI.

@nibdedibble go and educate yourself on History and the troubles in Northern Ireland before you come off with comments like that.

Dare I ask, as someone who is in England but not representing “WESTMINTAAAR” (as I have nothing to do with this govt) .... What is NS actually dong these days regarding a referendum?

I would have thought she would have seized the momentum of the Leave result to argue that there is now a moral imperative for a vote on Scottish independence. But she’s hardly mentioning it these days. Very odd. Why not? Surely this is her moment?

All you hear is where everywhere else has 3 tiers, Scotland will have 5. Or if Boris closes pubs at 10pm, she will make sure she closes pubs at 9.55pm.

All this fuss though about who did lockdown this week or that - it’s all much of a muchness really, don’t you think? Some countries have wars going on, never mind who is on Tier x,y,z and which UK country did what and when. Blimey.

What is NS actually dong these days regarding a referendum?

Not much - seems she has a weird idea dealing with a pandemic is what her electors would like.

In the longer run, I think the idea is to run the 2021 Scottish Parliament elections on a platform of independence (i.e. vote SNP if you want another referendum) and then seeing how things fall. If the SNP win a clear majority (say >80%), it puts the ball in Westminsters court to explain why that isn't democracy, whereas 52% is.

That's my naive understanding.

Yes, obviously there’s the pandemic since March, but I mean, since the Brexit vote? Or the last election? What was she waiting for?

@Zeb1

Yes, obviously there’s the pandemic since March, but I mean, since the Brexit vote? Or the last election? What was she waiting for?

It's a shame that a lot of people in the UK seem to struggle with what responsible government looks like in 2020 ...

Quote Zahra2
To be perfectly honest, it feels like everywhere hates London. Scottish and Welsh seem to have this habit of referring to us as “Westminster.”

Scot here. When I say 'Westminster', I'm actually referring to the government, not London or England. I always thought that was a clear way of noting where I was directing my criticism, but maybe it isn't.

Really interesting thread.

@Zeb1

Dare I ask, as someone who is in England but not representing “WESTMINTAAAR” (as I have nothing to do with this govt) .... What is NS actually dong these days regarding a referendum?

I would have thought she would have seized the momentum of the Leave result to argue that there is now a moral imperative for a vote on Scottish independence. But she’s hardly mentioning it these days. Very odd. Why not? Surely this is her moment?

All you hear is where everywhere else has 3 tiers, Scotland will have 5. Or if Boris closes pubs at 10pm, she will make sure she closes pubs at 9.55pm.

All this fuss though about who did lockdown this week or that - it’s all much of a muchness really, don’t you think? Some countries have wars going on, never mind who is on Tier x,y,z and which UK country did what and when. Blimey.

I’d say she’s got better things to worry about just now - I’d also argue Boris Johnson has done more for Scottish Independence in the last six months than Nicola Sturgeon. Give your enemy enough rope and all that.

Other counties have also dealt with Covid immeasurably better than Britain. We still don’t even have a reliable test and trace system.

The current Tory government are a turn-off for me, as person from the northern Irish Catholic community, living in London. I firmly believe they’re not actually that bright - many of them just expensively educated into Oxbridge. They certainly don’t seem to have a strategy or a cohesive plan for what’s going to happen next. As an Irish person (someone will, no doubt, be along shorty to point out I’m British) I feel totally and utterly “other” from them.

No, I'm in the North of Ireland and a nationalist. Have wanted a United Ireland my whole life and it has never seemed closer. Have never felt part of or even wanted to feel part of the UK.

However I will not vote for an SNP run independent Scotland.

I presume an independent Scotland will have different parties to vote for. We're not planning to become North Korea.

I will vote SNP until independence happens, but I hope to be able to vote for a Scottish Labour party in the future.

I was brought up feeling ''British' but that feeling has long gone. I'm prepared to accept a hard border on GB, along with the Euro if/when we return to the EU.

It's time that the people of England are left to live with their choices.

What is NS actually dong these days regarding a referendum?

The Sec30 is important as it ties the UK govt to accept the result of a Scottish referendum, and in turn validates Scotland's new status to the rest of the world. It's especially important for countries like Spain to acknowledge our independence when it comes to us moving back into the EU.

Without a Sec30, another referendum can still take place, but it poses a set of challenges - that being said, it may be what happens.

From a non- British perspective, most people do think of Scotland as separate to England. Scottish English sounds more like Danish (or something, but very different). Also, a lot if the time you can tell someone is Scottish just by looking at them. So people do think of it as separate. Welsh is harder to differentiate (unless they’re actually speaking Welsh of course). Scotland is a different culture and a different climate.

I will vote SNP until independence happens, but I hope to be able to vote for a Scottish Labour party in the future.

If anyone from Scottish Labour is reading, I agree with this and pleeeeeeeease stop pretending independence support is down to a blind devotion the the SNP you hate so much. I get that you don’t want to do the extra work of making yourselves electable in a future independent Scotland, I mean it might never happen, but it’s not exactly doing yous much good right now is it?

Also, a lot if the time you can tell someone is Scottish just by looking at them

What?

@nibdedibble

I will vote SNP until independence happens, but I hope to be able to vote for a Scottish Labour party in the future.

If anyone from Scottish Labour is reading, I agree with this and pleeeeeeeease stop pretending independence support is down to a blind devotion the the SNP you hate so much. I get that you don’t want to do the extra work of making yourselves electable in a future independent Scotland, I mean it might never happen, but it’s not exactly doing yous much good right now is it?

I agree. Scotland has been hugely let down by Labour and I’m a lifelong labour voter.

Labour in Scotland massively, massively misjudged that Vow and the years that followed. It’s a hill to climb to get support back, for sure.
It’s not like Westminster is even interested in their one MP, he could do whatever he wants without much aggro

Scottish, living in Scotland and feel much less aligned to today's politics than ever before. I don't think these feelings are exclusive to Scots, N Irish or Welsh though. I'm sure plenty of English people don't recognise what the country has become. Posts like this make me sad, it reinforces the "them and us" narratives that do none of us any good at all.

@Zeb1

From a non- British perspective, most people do think of Scotland as separate to England. Scottish English sounds more like Danish (or something, but very different). Also, a lot if the time you can tell someone is Scottish just by looking at them. So people do think of it as separate. Welsh is harder to differentiate (unless they’re actually speaking Welsh of course). Scotland is a different culture and a different climate.

Out of curiosity, how can you tell by looking at us? Careful how you go here!

Yes, I’m just back to see if Zeb1 ever came back with their foolproof Spot a Scot theory.

It must be the red hair and pallid complexions. Or the callouses on the fingers left by the chanter.

@nibdedibble

It must be the red hair and pallid complexions. Or the callouses on the fingers left by the chanter.

No, it’s the tartan! The tartan and the waft of the haggis as we do the Gay Gordons in Tesco.

Aye, the Haggis Tang, gaes roond yer hert lik a hairy worm though

I'm in NI, born at the start of the Troubles and I have never felt a proper part of the UK. I am a unionist because I dont trust any government and like having a wee land border I can get escape over in a hurry if I need to.

Brexit laid bare that many English people dont consider us proper UK either. I love the idea of a Celtic Three, but would want it called the UK. England can leave since it is so out of step with the other nations.