If you're in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, do you still feel part of a 'united' kingdom?

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

I'm in Wales, with family in England. Obviously I've always been aware of the divide (with some aspects more divided than others) but I feel increasingly like I don't even recognise England. It doesn't sound safe, the government is so chaotic it's not even funny any more, and now yesterday. Does anyone else feel like England's handling of the pandemic will permanently and fundamentally change the dynamics of the UK?

@zahra2

Here’s a cartogram (also by Dorling) which shows the concentration of leave vote constituencies to remain, weighted by population.

I think this is a good visualisation of why Londoners feel totally alienated from the rest of the UK, in the same way as Scotland must do.

why do you keep equating London (a city) to Wales and Scotland, which are countries?

And blaming "Wales" as a whole for voting leave and thus forcing it upon the rest of the UK when both Wales AND England were countries which voted leave overall but whose capital cities voted remain? In fact, a slightly higher percentage of England voted leave than Wales (53.4%/52.5%) so don't blame us for your own country's actions!

And as for suggesting "Personally, I think London should go independent and send BJ etc to their fans elsewhere."....you do remember that Londoners voted Boris as mayor not once but twice!!! For eight years! Before you inflicted him upon the rest of us....you can keep him, thanks...

Why should London feel more "totally alienated" from the rest of the UK than Cardiff, Bristol, Brighton, Belfast...many of whom voted remain with a far higher percentage than London overall?

Talk about creating division....

@zahra2

Er, well Wales has only been in lockdown less than a week, haven’t they? Hardly a reason for the moral high ground.

As for Brexit, well I hope people in Wales and the “red wall” can now see what they voted for. I hope “Get Brexit Done” was worth it. Thanks for that.

But all politicians are the same. Including Labour and the Welsh and Scottish ones. This is a pandemic, not a popularity context.

Personally, I think London should go independent and send BJ etc to their fans elsewhere.

It's interesting that you say that. Wales has had different (stricter) rules to England since March, but it's only since the latest Wales lockdown that people in England seem to have taken an interest.

*Mostly stricter, I should say. England was ahead of us with facemasks.

I’m in NI.
I have family in England. I thought we were all in it together.
Then England voted for Brexit and the Conservatives.
We are not all in it together. I’ll be voting for a united Ireland the first chance I get.

I’m in NI
I’m alliance voting from a unionist background.
I don’t feel part of the UK they will sell us down the river as it suits the whole brexit debacle ( I voted remain) perfectly demonstrates that we are a very inconvenient after thought.
The UK govt triumphs upholding conventions and the law in other countries across the world but will happily rip up peace agreements here when it doesn’t suit.
I would happily be part of a unites Ireland but let’s face it they don’t want our neglected broke ass economy and infrastructure dragging them down.

In terms of Covid I support the local actions they have been fair and measured and for once we have leadership

I am welsh, living in England, never felt British always welsh. I vote Green but would vote Plaid if I was in wales. Recently joined Yes Cymru as believe firmly in welsh independence. All my family are in wales & hold the same views now. I believe the union is no longer a viable way forward for wales, Scotland or NI as Westminster doesn’t give a shit about any of those countries.

I’m from Scotland. Yes I feel a part of the UK. Scottish Independence is my worst nightmare.

why do you keep equating London (a city) to Wales and Scotland, which are countries?

Because more people live in London than Scotland and Wales combined.

For better, or for worse, not many countries have a situation where more than 1 in 10 people live in one single city (and if you look at London merely as part of England it's closer to 1 in 5 people ...)

London is bigger than the next 10 cities combined (if not 20). Which means it's weirdly unique in Europe if not the world. And there's not much that can be done to change that.

Abrushwith same here but unfortunately I think it is inevitable

As a Scot living in the NE of Scotland, I feel as far removed from Central Belt government as I do from Westminster. We are a disunited bunch at the moment, and like Foxy & Abrushwith, I dread independence, but I am really disappointed with Brexit, the idea of it and the way it is being handled.
That said I could support a federal approach, such that areas of England also had devolved administrations with and overarching UK government.
Ultimately, like most MN posters, I think the Tories are doing a shit job.

Surely it’s just a matter of population size. London has 9 million people, there are only 5 million Scots in total. So London has a bigger seat at the table as more people live there.
And the U.K. is more than a short term Government. It is a shared history, culture, institutions etc etc BBC, NHS, military, universities, shared currency etc. Seems a lot to throw away as you don’t like Boris. Could Wales have their own currency for example? It would be very expensive as they would not have the borrowing power the pound has.
My family are for NI and although want a United ireland they do not want to lose the nhs and the bbc.

And the U.K. is more than a short term Government. It is a shared history

Well, yes. And most of that history has been England knocking (or trying to knock) the shit out of one or more of the other nations - sometimes at the same time. That's when it wasn't busy trying to wipe out the north of England in various acts that don't escape the label "genocide" because they all happened a long time ago.

“So leave won in all the areas where there been a negative impact of low paid immigration and remain won in the areas that benifit from the exploitation if low paid migrant workers?

Sounds about right, the average londoner isnt taking a pay cut or losing thier job as it's been outsourced to a services company that brings over workers. They're getting a boost because their cleaner , their coffee and their fruit is cheaper.”

Yes, I would agree with that analysis. Another way of looking at it though is that certain migrant demographics kept the fruit picking / agricultural / processing industries afloat in certain regions and the only reason this ‘labour market gap’ existed at all is because locals in those areas wouldn’t do those jobs. If the agricultural industry had collapsed there might have been far more severe economic ramifications in certain areas.

@SerendipityJane

And the U.K. is more than a short term Government. It is a shared history

Well, yes. And most of that history has been England knocking (or trying to knock) the shit out of one or more of the other nations - sometimes at the same time. That's when it wasn't busy trying to wipe out the north of England in various acts that don't escape the label "genocide" because they all happened a long time ago.

True! But again just a product of population size. If Scotland was the bigger of the two nations it would be the other way. And the Scots gave it a good go trying to control Northumberland back in the 800’s and they pushed back the Romans too. I love our shared history even if it wasn’t all friendly all the time but that is human history for ever not unique to the Scots/ English. We’ve also had loads of Scots over the years in charge at Westminster. We had Gordon brown AND alistair darling not so long ago in charge - both Scots!

I live in Northern Ireland it's our wee country,I don't feel like I'm part of the UK, I know technically we are

It’s interesting coming back to this thread having been the first to post.

The OP wants to start a discussion with people in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland about how they feel as part of this ‘Union’.

A ‘Union’ of four nations, but which only really means England and is incredibly south of England / London focused. A ‘Union’ where England is the priority and the other three nations an afterthought.

Page 1 of responses.....

“Oh but what about people in England... why don’t you care about us and what we think and what we have to say....?”

“Oh but what about London.... we voted to remain too.... we’re bigger than Scotland and Wales put together..... let’s talk about us and how we feel...!”

Kinda just proves the point of the OP.

I’m Scottish, and voted no in 2014.

Regret it now. The UK government has made clear how little they think of Scotland.

And constantly seeing “National” or UK lockdown when it really means “england” lock down in the press and on MN. It’s very frustrating (and confusing)

@Mammylamb

I’m Scottish, and voted no in 2014.

Regret it now. The UK government has made clear how little they think of Scotland.

But in 2014 you were convinced the UK government had Scotlands best interests at heart ?

I’m in Northern Ireland. It’s a running joke that the rest of the UK forget about us. I grew up in London so I don’t feel particularly separated but when I moved back to NI I realised how different so much is, especially the politics. It can feel quite apart from the rest of the UK especially as we are across the water.

Devolution has failed. We are now the disunited kingdom. Separatist power hungry leaders gunning for independence. BJ needs to exert more leadership over the devolved nations.

Last night the slides at the PowerPoint presentation had the title UK in it when it was only statistics for England. It’s ridiculous. We are stronger together and too many cooks spoil the broth.

@Bidl

Devolution has failed. We are now the disunited kingdom. Separatist power hungry leaders gunning for independence. BJ needs to exert more leadership over the devolved nations.

Last night the slides at the PowerPoint presentation had the title UK in it when it was only statistics for England. It’s ridiculous. We are stronger together and too many cooks spoil the broth.

The very worst thing he could do is start throwing his weight around now. He’s proved time and time again he’s incompetent and not fit to hold that role. He’s made the entire UK a laughing stock.

The more Boris exerts leadership over the devolved nations the quicker independence will come about. Boris is loathed in Scotland. Once the ramifications of the Internal Market Bill actually start playing out then I think the break up is pretty much guaranteed.

NI. Never felt part of a United Kingdom and would like a united Ireland more than ever. Pre Brexit I was sort of accepting of the status quo, but not now. This British government couldn't care less about us, any of us, regardless of which side of the secrarian divide...or of maintaining peace here. Unforgivable.

BJ needs to exert more leadership over the devolved nations.

In which case, they aren't devolved are they ? You may have just proved nationalists right.