If you're in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, do you still feel part of a 'united' kingdom?

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

I'm in Wales, with family in England. Obviously I've always been aware of the divide (with some aspects more divided than others) but I feel increasingly like I don't even recognise England. It doesn't sound safe, the government is so chaotic it's not even funny any more, and now yesterday. Does anyone else feel like England's handling of the pandemic will permanently and fundamentally change the dynamics of the UK?

I should hold my hands up at this point and admit that (as some of you have already guessed ) I'm not massively clued-up politically. So when I talk about not feeling part of the UK any more, it's more of a gut feeling, in a way. So... the handling of the pandemic in Wales undoubtedly hasn't been perfect, but I do feel like Drakeford is trying his best, and listening to the science, and trying to make decisions that are in the best interests of the country as a whole (I know some disagree). Whereas in England, very few people seem to feel like the Tories care about them in any meaningful way.

Before all this, I could read threads about England on here and stories on the news etc and broadly relate to what was going on. But right now, England feels further away than it did before, and that's a strange feeling to have.

(I'm absolutely not trying to steer this thread away from political debate, btw. Just warning you that you'll be disappointed if you're expecting anything more than the absolute basics from me )

I'm in NI and have never felt part of the UK, especially as so many people in GB just see us all as Irish anyway. Brexit has definitely made it even clearer that we are just an afterthought, and I honestly can't understand how anyone here still wants to be part of the Union. Why would you want to be part of something that doesn't really want you?

With regards to Covid, I never thought I'd say this but I think our lot are doing a good job. I would have preferred an all-island approach to it but can see it would cause big issues with some not being able to separate geography from politics, so in my opinion, they're doing the best they can and i'm thankful in this case that health's a devolved matter

miso - how many Londoners weren’t born in London though? Does that make the London Remain vote less valid because many / most of us weren’t born here?

If you had to interpret regional voting patterns according to where voters were actually born, you’d be in a long road to nowhere.,,,

Too easy to blame “immigrants.” Sounds a bit Cummings / Farage - esque to me.

Imagine if we started identifying or recording the original nationalities / ethnicities of Leave voters in London..., Hmm.... Can’t see that going well.

Absolutely not. The actions of the UK government recently show that they view Scotland with nothing but contempt.

Independence from those fuckers in Westminster can't come soon enough.

Independence from those fuckers in Westminster can't come soon enough.

100%

I'm quite jealous that Scotland have the opportunity to become independent, I'd love the same for NI but we couldn't survive on our own

Scottish here and no I don't feel part of a United Kingdom. I voted yes to independence in 2014, and although disappointed we didn't win, felt hope as long as we were still part of Europe. However, after the 2016 vote, the shit show that is Brexit and the Tories re-election, which all served to highlight once again vast differences and inequalities between us I feel independence is the only way forward.

Wales, feels like we're ran by an idiot who's only motivation is "be opposite to england"

@Redact

Scottish here and no I don't feel part of a United Kingdom. I voted yes to independence in 2014, and although disappointed we didn't win, felt hope as long as we were still part of Europe. However, after the 2016 vote, the shit show that is Brexit and the Tories re-election, which all served to highlight once again vast differences and inequalities between us I feel independence is the only way forward.

But if you'd won the referendum you wouldn't have been in Europe any more

Here’s a cartogram (also by Dorling) which shows the concentration of leave vote constituencies to remain, weighted by population.

I think this is a good visualisation of why Londoners feel totally alienated from the rest of the UK, in the same way as Scotland must do.

@jacks11

I think there is a general feeling that the UK government primarily governs in the interest of England- and I would say even within that it is fairly focussed on the south, London in particular. You only have to look at things like infrastructure spending and how it is planned (HS2 being a prime example) to see that in action. By focussing spend in the south, it has hamstrung other areas to a greater or larger extent.

Another example, of England-centric thinking is when Wales asked for extra money to allow an early lockdown or Scotland wanted to more money to allow longer lockdown with furlough if needed, they were told it had to come from existing money (presumably as England were not planning to do what the devolved government/administration were considering). Now that England has required to enter a lockdown? Of course, the funds are instantly available (as they should be). I’m not arguing the rights and wrongs of who should have locked down and when/whether the Welsh got it right or not etc. I’m am saying that extra money was made available the instant England asked. Other areas of the country would not/did not get the same response.

Well yeah the English are paying for the English lockdown.

Why would you think it fair England pays for the welshscotish the Irish as the English lock down?

Sorry I’ll try again

[quote TOADfan]@Pumperthepumper we can still be part of the EEC. Leaving the EU doesn't mean we have to leave the EEC. We can still have trade with Ireland and the EU if we remain with the EEC, it's just means Germany cannot dictate our laws and humans rights legislation.[/quote]
One of the most mangled pieces of brexity nonsense I've ever seen! Any Northern Ireland Unionist who voted to leave the EU and still thinks it was a good idea is (checks Mumsnet policy on insulting language) unwise. It must be one of the biggest strategic blunders in British (for now) political history.

Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt.

"Well yeah the English are paying for the English lockdown. "

Nope, every taxpayer in the UK is paying for it.

I'd lived/worked in Wales for several years. During that time I did experience some anti-English sentiment/attitude. Considering that we did invade, and tried eliminate their language, culture, etc I guess I can understand it. In fact, it fairly amazing that Welsh and Scottish have maintained their identities.

Looking at the bigger picture we created a large empire, and bit by bit have lost it. If that trend continues then it's likely Wales and Scotland will go their own way. Swings and roundabouts ...

In NI and nope. It's been clear for a long time the British government does not give a toss about us and I don't feel part of anything united.

• Well yeah the English are paying for the English lockdown.

Why would you think it fair England pays for the welshscotish the Irish as the English lock down?*

What a fucking moronic thing to say. UK Treasury is funding it from UK tax and UK borrowing. You’ve just illustrated perfectly the insular view that so many seem to have that England = UK.

@zahra2

Sorry I’ll try again

So leave won in all the areas where there been a negative impact of low paid immigration and remain won in the areas that benifit from the exploitation if low paid migrant workers?

Sounds about right, the average londoner isnt taking a pay cut or losing thier job as it's been outsourced to a services company that brings over workers. They're getting a boost because their cleaner , their coffee and their fruit is cheaper.

@Elsewyre Do you think the taxes we pay go just to Wales? Info just for you, they don't. WM take the majority of it. So we are paying for HS2 for example.

You obviously don't know how devolved taxation works - I didn't until I looked into recently. But I did have the sense to look into it to learn about it before becoming involved in any arguments so I didn't make a tit of myself. Try it.

Are the views of people in England not valid then?

I would suggest that in NI, Wales and Scotland they are just as valid as the views of Wales, NI and Scotland are in England. Which as far as I can see is a a big Fuck All at the moment.

For the country that is by far and a way the biggest and richest in the UK, it's hard not to see the English as also the most insecure. Or is that a guilty conscience ?

[quote BashfulClam]@crazyfrogs no because it’s asking how the other 3 nations feel not how people in England feel. This is what I detest, we ask about the other nations who are an afterthought and people from England get the hump![/quote]
There are people in England who don't feel like part of the UK. It may shock you to know that Irish, Scottish and Welsh people live in England.

Scottish. Yes, I feel part of the UK. Will vote ‘No’ again in the next referendum....and the one after that....and the one.............

and I honestly can't understand how anyone here still wants to be part of the Union. Why would you want to be part of something that doesn't really want you?

Do you know, I posted upthread that I'm probably broadly a unionist, although not particularly bothered one way or another. The only real issue that puts me off a united Ireland these days is the incredibly high cost of living in the rest of Ireland. NI has got fairly low salaries in general and I don't feel like we'd suddenly get paid more if the border were abolished, but I'd imagine we would see a huge increase in the cost of food etc.

And that's all it comes down to for me really. I don't feel wanted by the UK at all though. And the only other factor that makes me want to dig my heels in and say 'I'm British too' (even though in real life I don't describe myself as such) is sheer stubbornness and a feeling of 'how dare you treat us like this? You're not dumping me without a fight'.

So, cost of living and not wanting to let those who have made this country suffer walk away from the repercussions.

But really, if a referendum voted for a united Ireland I would accept that fairly easily.

Elsewyre- sorry unable to quote an already quoted post, the intention was that Scotland would have applied to rejoin Europe, had we voted to leave UK. The results of the 2016 referendum show there's certainly the support and desire to be part of Europe in Scotland.