This has to stop, but I doubt it will.

[OverTheRainbow88]

“According to the figures, Black people in Bristol and Somerset were 6.4 times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people last year.

That's despite Black people being only slightly more likely to be arrested if they are stopped.
Of the Black people that were stopped in Avon and Somerset last year, 17% were then arrested - compared to 15% of white people.”

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/black-people-bristol-somerset-64-4646894

Force wide training, are you aware that that means everyone received the training from him.

Nope.

Hang on, so you genuinely don’t understand what the bold writing means?

Sigh, I see the pro-racists are out in force yet again.

Yep, the great White Supremacist Invasion of Mumsnet continues...

@PizzzaExpressWoking

Sigh, I see the pro-racists are out in force yet again.

Yep, the great White Supremacist Invasion of Mumsnet continues...

I thought they would be gone now the other place is open again.

Hang on, so you genuinely don’t understand what the bold writing means?

I am fairly sure I do understand it, yes. And I am just as sure that I can also understand why that might mean some officers still don’t know him. Anyway, this is getting silly and you are being rude. I’m leaving this now as it is actually not even what the thread is about.

Who the hell is voting YABU???!!!
Seriously???!!!

@SimonJT did the police actually say to you that they had stopped you for wearing sunglasses? And for wearing a sports kit?

[quote AwaAnBileYerHeid]@SimonJT did the police actually say to you that they had stopped you for wearing sunglasses? And for wearing a sports kit?[/quote]
Yes, when you are subjected to stop and search they are supposed to tell you why (they never actually do), so I always ask, it is never recorded correctly when you go and collect the record of your search.

I was however impressed that the officer who had only seen me from behind could see my sunglasses, pretty impressive vision.

Sorry if I am being thick but surely if a similar percentage of each race is being arrested based on the disproportionate stoppages then the stops were correctly done? Or it would be a much lower percentage of the stops on black people?

Yes, a bit blinkered and dim with an incredibly narrow viewpoint and lack of empathy.

I’ve never been stopped and searched. I’ve never been subject to suspicion because of the colour of my skin nor the clothes I choose to wear.
Is it so inconceivable that some of the stopping are a deliberate act of racism? The head of the Met CCTV unit was publicly supportive of UKIP. There have been tribunal awards against the police for racist treatment of non-white police officers.

If you go looking for criminal activity within any group you will find it. If you look more frequently, you will find it more frequently. Twenty three police officers were injured in June by far right activists; they are a much more dangerous group. They don’t seem to suffer same level of brutality ad suspicion from many officers.

An online unconscious bias training is never going to be enough to overcome the problem. It needs careful analysis of data and disciplinary action to relieve the streets of racist police officers. It needs an investment in community policing and better children’s and youth provision in economically challenged areas. It probably needs a targeted recruitment campaign that aims to increase both non-white and women into the police to charge the culture.

Perhaps recruitment should be such that underlying racist views are a bar to employment

Perhaps all referrals to CPS should be ‘colour blind’ to ensure that the evidence is reviewed without seeing the person’s name and colour.

Perhaps all officers making wrongful arrests should be supported to go and apologise to the people affected. That might help community relations.

Why don’t we hear of white people moaning about being stopped and searched? Loads of white people are stopped by police, we just don’t hear about it. They are stopped and searched, some arrested, those that aren’t move on, go about their day as normal.

@SimonJT what reason did they give to connect the wearing of sunglasses with a suspected crime?

@Ilovemypantry

Why don’t we hear of white people moaning about being stopped and searched? Loads of white people are stopped by police, we just don’t hear about it. They are stopped and searched, some arrested, those that aren’t move on, go about their day as normal.

People who are non-white are stopped much more.

White people also aren’t being stopped due to racism.

I read the OP and was about to close the thread, but then I decided to have a skim through just to see whether mumsnet is still full of racist idiots. And of course it bloody is.

[quote CheetasOnFajitas]@SimonJT what reason did they give to connect the wearing of sunglasses with a suspected crime?[/quote]
No reason given, they didn’t meet the reasons to legally carry out a stop and search. My favourite is when you attempt to gain a record of your search at the station and you discover the officer lied about their name. I now record all stop and searches, funnily enough they act very differently when you do that.

www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rights

To be fair, I was stopped and searched once and I was resentful. Reason given: I was carrying a bag in a stop and search area. We all know this is ridiculous. We all know police have targets to fulfil. And we all know (as Simon points out) that if they get it wrong, some officers are perfectly capable of falsifying the reasoning.

I am not denying any of that. I am simply saying that, without knowing why they tended to stop and search more BAME people over a certain period in a certain area, we can’t attribute it to racism.

What else might it be?

It might be that they tend to stop more of a certain type of car. If more BAME people buy those cars, more of them would be stopped.

It might be that they tend to stop more people in areas where there is more crime. If more BAME people live in these areas, more of them would be stopped.

It might be that they tend to stop more people at certain times of the day. If more BAME people tend to be out and about at those times, more of them would be stopped.

Correlation isn’t causation.

That’s shocking. Re the name though, don’t they all wear ID numbers on their uniforms, I think have also seen names?

If I were a cop, those numbers would make me think like this:

95.4% of the population is white and 0.9% black in the South West, according to the 2011 census. If a black person is 6.4 times more likely to be stopped than a white person, that means that (6.4x0.9)/(6.4x0.9+95.4) = 6% of stops are of black people. So a cop in the South West might think (correctly) that they stop seventeen white people for every black person - and they might therefore think (incorrectly) that they're not discriminating against black people. An equal rate would be 95.4/0.9, or about 106 white people for every black person. That is something I would reflect on.

But there's a deeper problem. An equal rate might not be desirable. I think it is reasonable that you might focus more resources on stopping and searching a demographic who are more likely to be doing something arrestable (that point's certainly arguable, but it's not completely unreasonable). So an urgent question for a cop is, do they believe that black people are such a demographic? If they don't believe that, then what non-racist justification is there for a six times higher rate of stopping and searching? If, on the other hand, they do believe that, then the difference in criminality has to be enormous to justify a factor of six difference in stop and search rates. But the success rate of a stop and search is almost identical - 15% vs 17%. If they simply stopped and searched people at random and black people were enormously more likely to be criminal, then they'd get a much higher success rate from stop and search of black people than white. But they don't. The difference is tiny. So if they want to believe that black people are far more likely to be criminals they also have to believe that their ability to pick criminals out of the population is far worse for black people than white - and that would be unjustifiable discrimination again. That's also something I'd reflect on.

So my point is that, unless these figures are a complete fabrication (and if you believe that I challenge you to find the correct ones), I cannot see an explanation that doesn't involve racial discrimination: either cops are inappropriately targeting the black population or they suck at identifying black street criminals in a way they don't with white ones.

@flaviaritt

If you bother to read that link, you have your answer.

To what?

To your question:

They asked him to identify himself and he ignored them. Why?

@SpeverendRooner

Thank you. You’ve explained it much better than I could.

You seem to give your opinion with considerable authority, @flaviaritt. Can I ask what makes you so confident in your opinions and statements?

An equal rate would be 95.4/0.9, or about 106 white people for every black person. That is something I would reflect on.

But that number would be different in different areas of cities. So you'd have to consider that too.

@EmeraldShamrock

it’s not racist to be stopped and searched by the police. If you don’t have anything, what’s the issue. You get released You're not getting it. Why should people be stopped and searched for no other reason than the colour of their skin. This happens everywhere unfortunately. My niece's boyfriend has been stopped a few times. A few to many as there is no reason to suspect him other than he is black. I hope the Gardai become more diverse in the future. I have never seen a black or Asian gardai. Not saying they don't exist but they are needed for balance.

I have seen just one Asian Garda about 10 years ago patrolling the liberties in Dublin. Hopefully that has changed since then.

If you don’t have anything, what’s the issue. You get released

What’s the issue? Seriously.

It’s racist that’s the issue.

You seem to give your opinion with considerable authority, @flaviaritt.

I’m sorry? Are you Lady Catherine de Bourgh? I’ll give whatever opinion I want.

@queenofknives

An equal rate would be 95.4/0.9, or about 106 white people for every black person. That is something I would reflect on.

But that number would be different in different areas of cities. So you'd have to consider that too.

@OverTheRainbow88 - I'm never going to lead a revolution in the social order, but data analysis I can do.

@queenofknives - That's a fair point for an individual cop. They'd need a more local measure of the ethnicity population than "the South West" figure that I found. But that doesn't change the problem with the overall figure. If many cops are stopping and searching at a more reasonable rate for their area, it just means that the others are really bad.