This has to stop, but I doubt it will.

[OverTheRainbow88]

“According to the figures, Black people in Bristol and Somerset were 6.4 times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people last year.

That's despite Black people being only slightly more likely to be arrested if they are stopped.
Of the Black people that were stopped in Avon and Somerset last year, 17% were then arrested - compared to 15% of white people.”

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/black-people-bristol-somerset-64-4646894

@flaviaritt

Without knowing why they are being stopped, it is hard to say whether this is racism or not. It might be. Or it might be behavioural. And before anyone says that is a racist thing to say, no it’s not. I am simply not ruling out either possibility.

Would you consider a quick look at this behaviour by the same police force, @flaviaritt?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/avon-somerset-police-taser-race-relations-adviser-bristol-judah-adunbi-a8592026.html

What is it with people who are drawn to these threads like moths to a flame to loudly declare there is no racism?
Because their posts rather belie that.

I don’t agree with the idea that if you get stopped and haven’t done anything then it’s all ok as it’s incredibly frustrating to be held in suspicion when you are innocent. I remember being followed by a security guard in Woolworths as a teenager and feeling a real sense of injustice that I was being stigmatised because of my age.

I guess part of the point is whether the end justifies the means. It is racial profiling and racial profiling is by its nature racist. But it is a fact that (for example) more knife crime in London is committed by black teens, so the question is does stop and search reduce the number of people who are victims of knife crime (who are mostly black too) and if it does is that more important than the stop being racist. Do people are against it think the police should stop lots more people who are outside the key demographic for a crime to ensure that the stoppages are more even/ fair? The same applies to Arab people being subject to more searches at airports. If it was pure racism then black and Asian women would be searched at the same rate and I would suspect that is not the case. Drug offences are different to knife crime because it is highly likely that they are committed at the same rate by all races but if more black people are stop and searched they are going to be found in possession more often. There are plenty of crimes that white people commit in far greater numbers than black people including serial killing and murder suicides but they are not the sort of crimes you can stop and search for.

SparklingLime

They asked him to identify himself and he ignored them. Why?

@flaviaritt

SparklingLime

They asked him to identify himself and he ignored them. Why?

They didn’t ask him to identify himself. They purposely called him by the wrong name and laughed at him because they thought him being tasered was funny.

SimonJT

Oh I see. I didn’t get that - it’s early! Then that is awful.

@flaviaritt

Without knowing why they are being stopped, it is hard to say whether this is racism or not. It might be. Or it might be behavioural. And before anyone says that is a racist thing to say, no it’s not. I am simply not ruling out either possibility.

Stopped for wearing sunglasses (white person in sunglasses not stopped) Stopped for wearing kit of the team I play for (white teammates in kit not stopped) Convicted of a crime when cctv and witnesses showed that I was one of the victims. The actual criminal was white.

Care to explain why the above weren’t racist?

SimonJT

I am not appreciating the tone of your comments, Simon. What I said was “Without knowing why, it’s hard to say...”

Why do you assume from that that I am going to want to explain that any particular instance isn’t racist?

That’s your only comment after reading and watching that?

To answer your question, try Judah Adunbi’s own words:

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/exclusive-judah-adunbi-didnt-give-2096279

I believe that was the third time he was wrongly identified, @SimonJT. He has been treated appallingly by Avon and Somerset police. It’s a disgrace.

SparklingLime

Me? I said it was awful. Yes, that is my comment.

@flaviaritt

SparklingLime

Me? I said it was awful. Yes, that is my comment.

If you bother to read that link, you have your answer.

If you bother to read that link, you have your answer.

To what?

Having watched that video, I think it’s pretty obvious that this isn’t a cut-and-dried case of either police racism or entirely reasonable police behaviour. It is true that a person does not have to identify themselves, but it is also true that that doesn’t exempt them from arrest on suspicion of being a wanted offender. I absolutely don’t believe he should have been tasered, but then I think the use of taser is disgusting in most circumstances.

@flaviaritt

Having watched that video, I think it’s pretty obvious that this isn’t a cut-and-dried case of either police racism or entirely reasonable police behaviour. It is true that a person does not have to identify themselves, but it is also true that that doesn’t exempt them from arrest on suspicion of being a wanted offender. I absolutely don’t believe he should have been tasered, but then I think the use of taser is disgusting in most circumstances.

Are you choosing to ignore the fact that he worked for the police and the officers actually know who he is, you know, having worked with him.

But if you look at the deaths from stabbings especially in London, which ethnic group is carrying them out?

Are you choosing to ignore the fact that he worked for the police and the officers actually know who he is, you know, having worked with him.

I’m not. Are you saying those two officers knew him personally? From watching that video that would surprise me enormously. They genuinely seemed to be trying to sort things out to me. Then he became aggressive (and I am not saying he doesn’t have understandable reasons for that). He is heard to say “I will fuck you up”. You can’t say that to the police, come on.

YANBU. While the holders of the power (primarily white, middle class, middle aged men) are content to sit with the myth that an attempt to distribute the power more fairly will result in a massive swing where people of colour become the primary holders of power, nothing will change. A great many of them probably don't believe this but because they know on some level it's benefitting them it's difficult to incite the level of action needed to bring about change.

There's an awful lot of material out there written by people of colour talking about this very issue. Yes much of it is written by Americans but just because we don't have the same level of gun violence by police against BAME people, doesn't mean there isn't also a problem here. Anyone who's finding this issue difficult to understand I'd urge you to read some of these accounts, I did and it completely opened my eyes. I didn't understand that I have the privilege to walk and drive around without fear of being stopped by the police just because of how I look. It sounds ridiculous on a surface level but when you read into it you realise that it's actually true.

@raddledoldmisanthropist

Of the Black people that were stopped in Avon and Somerset last year, 17% were then arrested - compared to 15% of white people.”

If that's true it suggests that the stops are not motivated by racism. If that were the cause you'd expect a far smaller proportion of black people to be arrested because they'd be mostly innocent.

Lots of things might be causing that- I highly doubt that black people in Somerset are 6 times more likely to be criminals. It would be interesting to see whether the arrests are borne out in charging. It would also be interesting to see where the arrests are happening and for what crime.

Or to read it another way, the police stopped 6 x more Black people to get a similar number of arrests.

It follows that if they stopped the same number of white people as they do Black people, there'd be 6 x more white people being arrested, and the percentage for Black people would be much much lower.

Have those saying it's fine to be stopped and searched really thought what they're saying through? Can you really not imagine that happening to you, as you go about your business - chatting with a friend, going to the shops, walking home after work - and see how humiliating that would be? People stop and stare when police are talking to you, and if they stop you, they tend to believe it's for a reason! See above!!

And can you imagine how upsetting that would be for it to repeatedly happen, because of something as fundamentally unfair as someone else's perception that how you look = how criminals look?

Can you imagine carrying that weight around all the time, always having to be careful, always having to double think are you giving off signals, are you keeping your body language right etc etc.

You simply can't live in a just society and think that stop and search based on ethnic profiling is okay. It's just not.

@flaviaritt

Are you choosing to ignore the fact that he worked for the police and the officers actually know who he is, you know, having worked with him.

I’m not. Are you saying those two officers knew him personally? From watching that video that would surprise me enormously. They genuinely seemed to be trying to sort things out to me. Then he became aggressive (and I am not saying he doesn’t have understandable reasons for that). He is heard to say “I will fuck you up”. You can’t say that to the police, come on.

He gave multiple force wide training, every officer in the force received training from him. He was not acting aggressively, but black people are always told they are being aggressive when they don’t submit and give up their rights.

If you received multiple training sessions from someone at work, would you really not be able to identify them?

He gave multiple force wide training, every officer in the force received training from him. He was not acting aggressively, but black people are always told they are being aggressive when they don’t submit and give up their rights.

I’m sorry but he was being aggressive. And I have no idea whether those particular officers received training from him or not. I imagine I would remember him, but they seemed genuine to me in their belief that he was someone else, so I can only assume they didn’t.

@flaviaritt

He gave multiple force wide training, every officer in the force received training from him. He was not acting aggressively, but black people are always told they are being aggressive when they don’t submit and give up their rights.

I’m sorry but he was being aggressive. And I have no idea whether those particular officers received training from him or not. I imagine I would remember him, but they seemed genuine to me in their belief that he was someone else, so I can only assume they didn’t.

Force wide training, are you aware that that means everyone received the training from him.

He is not being aggressive, he is simply being held to a higher standard because black people are only considered okay and good enough by racists when they are being perfect.

Force wide training, are you aware that that means everyone received the training from him.

Nope. They honestly seemed to believe he was someone else.

He is not being aggressive, he is simply being held to a higher standard because black people are only considered okay and good enough by racists when they are being perfect.

No. He says, “I will fuck you up.” What is that if it isn’t aggressive? What you are doing is ignoring his aggression because of your concern about the motivation of the police.

Depends on how much of crime in that area was committed by BAME. Obviously if local crime has been carried out by a certain section of society (I’m talking convictions here), then obviously police are going to target a large percentage of their stop and search at that particular group, in that area. If the make up of a particular area is mostly BAME, then it makes sense that a large percentage of stop and searches are going to reflect that for that area. I live near a very well known crime ridden estate - all white people. Whenever there is crime around any of the surrounding areas, people within that specific estate are targeted for stop and search, because the statistics are that a lot of the crime is committed by people who live within that local community. It might not seem fair, but I guess with low police resources that’s what they have to do.