If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

[woodhill]

Sounds quite petty. I hate the green light thing. When WFH I attempt to be logged dead on time but it can take a while to get in and I do work later

When I go into the office I'm not logged on bang on start time one day but another I may be earlier than my start time,

[KurriKawari]

Also the whole attitude of "well other people log in half an hour early, therefore will get further in our organisation" encourages a really unhealthy culture and shouldn't be encouraged.

[lanthanum]

I work from home (did so pre-covid) but in the sort of job where clock-watching isn't an issue. I'll often turn my computer on and then go and brush my teeth while it boots up - and for all you know that's what his colleagues are doing.
If it's the sort of job where you'd be having a quiet word if he came into the office five minutes late every day, then have a quiet word, whether it's "this needs to change" or "you do realise it makes you look less professional..." Bear in mind that it might be the computer booting up - in which case suggest he just turns it on in advance so it's ready by 9.

[DelphineWalsh]

Well ignoring your drip feeds and to answer your question relating to the start time. - He's not a robot. But if you want him to be, then start managing him.

[MrsMoastyToasty]

In the days when I worked in a call centre regulated by a regulatory body (think ofgem/ofwat/Ofcom type of setting) then logging on late could mean that if you had 2 calls coming in as soon as you opened and only one person available to answer them then only one was answered within the required waiting time and the other queued. The centres statistics would drop to 50% of calls answered in x number of minutes. Obviously if every other call that day was answered then the stats would start to rise but you could never achieve 100% answered in target time, even if you and colleagues answered 1000 calls in a day. That's when being on time was important, as basically if we kept failing to keep our stats up then we would lose that part of our business to a competitor.
I now work in a place that does flexitime. We have core hours - parttimers like me have individual agreed core hours and full timers have to follow the office standard. I have to be ready to work by pm 9.30 but often I'm ready by 9.15, sometimes there's no work coming down the line from colleagues so I finish earlier than 3pm. Other days I'm completing a task and I'm working at 3.30pm.

[Forresttheout]

I'm surprised by the amount of people saying let it go, 5 minutes every day is 25 minutes a week over an hour a month which adds up significantly over the year. My company has a pretty chill work from home system, I work 9-5 sometimes I might log on 15 mins late but other days i'm logged on 15 mins early or finishing 10 mins late etc so it balances out and therefore nobody cares.
If he is 5 mins late every day but never stays a minute past 5 then that is a problem.

[CakeRequired]

Also the whole attitude of "well other people log in half an hour early, therefore will get further in our organisation" encourages a really unhealthy culture and shouldn't be encouraged.

Nor should a lazy attitude be encouraged. He's late to meetings or misses them, is slow at his work, won't take on extra work when others will, is late every day. I know who I'd promote and it certainly wouldn't be him.

[LindaEllen]

It depends whether it's a time sensitive job. My job for example can be done whenever so long as I put the hours in. There are other jobs of course where you would actually need to be online at a specific time, for example if you're part of a customer service team answering queries online - if you're late to that, there's more pressure on your team until you get there.

It also depends on what you define as working. I would suggest that as long as he's sitting down making a start by 9, it's okay. Then by the time he's turned his computer on and logged in, it's probably 5 past. If he's getting paid to work from 9 he shouldn't have to there early to boot up, surely that process starts at 9.

[TheKeatingFive]

How well is he doing his job OP? Because that’s an actual relevant point rather than quibbling over 5 minutes here or there.

[canigooutyet]

A lot of companies also have some sort of "clock in" system that registers you as "working" such as your passes, manager in a small company, receptionist etc.
They see you're there at 8:59 even if your just making a cuppa

[woodhill]

And definitely that teams trick on your phone. I don't have it as I want to shut off my work when not in work

[Todaytomorrow09]

The 5 min late think is neither here or there you need a little flexibility. But you mention that his performance is lacking that should be your focus - arrange a 121 with him and bring these issues to the discussion. Don’t go for the 5 min late it sounds petty and could dilute the other issues you mention!

I’m lucky I have the flexibility in my role- I log in early get some bits done and then sort out the kids. As it’s half term this week I know I’ve needed during the day to sort the kids out but worked till late last night to make the hours - if my manager questioned me and wanted me sat in front of the laptop 9-5 it wouldn’t make a happy work environment. Obviously if it’s a customer facing role it would need a different structure.

[Mintychoc1]

He's taking the piss. 5 minutes every day (assuming 6 weeks holiday) adds up to over 2 days work in a year. Those of you saying it's petty to moan about 5 minutes - would you be happy if you had a colleague who just had an extra 2 days annual leave each year for no reason?
It sounds like he's generally lazy in other ways too.
I assume there's some sort of appraisal process? He needs to be told that if he wants to progress then he has to up his game a bit. There may also be some personal reason for his workrate, which should be addressed at an appraisal too.

[Tobebythesea]

For 5 minutes, I think it’s petty. I thought you were going to say 9.30!

When I worked in a job where I applied for and got flexible working (8-4 instead of 9-5), Guaranteed my boss would call at 8.02 ‘just to check something’. Petty.

[ConstantlySeekingHappiness]

@ivfbeenbusy

How many members of the team smoke or have a caffeine habit or have young children at home? If he has neither then over the course of the day not going outside for a smoke or making a 100 cups of coffee or getting distracted by the kids is more than going to make up for his 5 minutes???

This.

And you mention he doesn’t have kids, are other team members allowed more flexibility because they do?

[purplemunkey]

I think the starting 5 mins late is a bit of a red herring. You’re unimpressed by him in general so him being the last to log on ( and first to log off by the sounds of it) irks you. Which I get. Those saying it takes 5 mins for laptops to start up, you generally should be ready to work from your start time - not have just arrived.

I agree with others though, if his work was great otherwise I wouldn’t think anything of it. I used to work for a small company. We had set ‘office hours’ but being part of a very small team meant I regularly worked late. We all worked hard and pulled together as a team to get everything done. I often came in 10/20mins later then official ‘start’ time when this happened. As did everyone else. This was fine and accepted until boss moved on and someone else was promoted to their role. Within a week a few of us were pulled up on ‘consistent lateness’. Pissed me off royally and the consistent late finishes weren’t taken into account at all. He completely under appreciated the effort we put in. I moved on shortly after.

However, yours doesn’t sound like a small company. Larger companies shouldn’t operate like this. The talk of people logging on super early is worrying, that’s not a great company culture to encourage. If the work can’t be done in working hours then you have a workload problem. Staff shouldn’t have to start early and finish late to accommodate this.

But, he does sound like he has unrealistic expectations. If he’s putting in minimum effort and consistently starting late he’s not going to get a promotion.

[Firenight]

If he meets his objectives and delivers on time then worrying about 5 mins is ridiculous.

I log on sometimes as late as 9.30 post school run, sometimes itake a long lunch, sometimes I finish at 4.30. But equally sometimes I start at 8 and don't log off until 6.30. It depends what pressures are on.

[Chamberlai]

This is hilarious.

You'd love me, OP. My dot has been green since 09:00, but guess how much work I've done?

[UpperLowercaseSymbolNumber]

Really this is about broader underperformance and as other have said this would be best addressed through that. The 9.05 is a symptom of the issue here not the cause. If they were a strong performer I doubt you would notice or care.

I do get it on the time though. I remember having an underperformed that also started late most days. They didn’t want to raise their performance, they didn’t see what the big deal was about being late every day and this being noticed by more senior management but yet they wanted promotion. I then told them I wanted them in for 9 and there was stubborn resistance back as to why I was insisting at them coming in for their contractual start time. And that sort of did it for me - if you aren’t going to perform well at least do your hours.

[lottiegarbanzo]

I'd have a quick chat with him and just remind him that start time is 9am. Simple.

Unless you have flexi-time, it's irrelevant whether he works after 5pm, or whether he gets is work done (though obviously that is the bigger picture). He's contracted to do something and he's not doing it.

[Coffeeoverload]

It’s 5 mins, FFS.
I once had a boss who would send me around the world on business and have me in the office fairly regularly until 2 am, but bitch and moan when I’d be 10 mins late in the morning. Absolutely unreasonable. If he’s late to meetings, yes. If it’s late to switch his computer on for what’s probably a really crappy work day in his parents’ house, YABVU

[EatPrayYoga]

Oh for goodness sake, your company expects people to be logged on and ready to work at 9am but don't pay the 5 mins or so it takes the computer to load up etc.

He is in a junior professional role. He is expected to work beyond his usual hours sometimes. We all are. Those who are training tend to want to impress.

An attitude of "I am not working beyond my contractual hours" does not work in this profession and to start our with that attitude when you are not even qualified yet and don't have any children etc requiring you to be elsewhere is not a good start.

I have not asked about the 5 minutes as I'm not sure whether IABU to mention it at all. Most of the comments suggest I am.

I take on board all the comments but think it is important to note that this is a profession and we are salaried and therefore we all work beyond our normal hours sometimes.

If he started work just after nine but worked late every day then that would be different (but I know managers who spoke to their staff if not in by 9 in any event).

I have 1-2-1s with him at least monthly. I have never mentioned time keeping but there are other issues I have mentioned almost every time we speak and I mentioned them to my boss last time we spoke about him. I said I'm not sure what to do as I have mentioned it again and again and he said all you can do is keep on at it, on the basis that I was otherwise happy with him as he has good points of course.

[woodhill]

Just send a general email to all and see if it improves

[Yoffel]

Unless it is stipulated in his contract, he has no obligation to start work before 9 in order that his pc is booted up and logged in by 9. YABU.

[Bouncycastle12]

Oh right, so you’re expecting unpaid overtime as standard?