If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

[Judystilldreamsofhorses]

I've been WFH since March - I'm a lecturer, so have set hours when I am teaching classes online, then the rest of the time is marking, preparing lessons, meetings with students etc. My official hours are 9 - 5.

I tend to switch my computer on before I dry my hair, and eat breakfast, so about 8.30 - I would show as being "at work" in terms of Teams, but I'm not working. I'm always at my desk at 9, but when I am not teaching I do dip in and out a bit, so right now I am looking at Mumsnet, then I am going to empty the dishwasher. If I was at work, I would have periods where I was chatting to colleagues, going off to get a coffee etc, so I think this is fair enough. Plus my eyes can't cope with seven hours at a small laptop screen! I tend to take a bit of a break around lunchtime and go for a walk, but I am also doing far more hours than usual and working in the evenings/weekends. I'm contracted to work four days a week, but am always doing a bit of work on the fifth day which I wouldn't generally do if I was in my actual work.

I think there needs to be a bit of give and take, and would hope my manager realises that we are actually all doing a lot more hours than we would usually, even if someone is nipping off to put a wash on or round to Tesco at 3pm or whatever.

[EdwardBear1920]

Interesting as I was reading. One thing I think you should address is why the others need to start their work early and finish late. It might be if they were all at 9:00 and he was 9:05, and everyone finished at 17:00, it wouldn't look so bad. He's cutting down 5 minutes off the working day, which is not great but arguably, it's just 5 minutes. However, he's cutting down however long against what the others are doing, so their activity causes his to look worse than it might otherwise do. Note: I'm not trying to say they are doing wrong and it's their fault. Just that you need to look at him against his contract and not against his colleagues.

However, as I've read on, I think as a team leader it is your responsibility to discuss with him what's happening at work (all the issues you have, not the 5 minutes less), the impression it will be giving, and what he needs to do to be able to compete for the other roles. So, everything bundled up into a career progression discussion.

[CleverCatty]

I log on at 9am every day.

Sometimes later due to our system not letting us log on. Make up the time.

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

I log on about half an hour before my start time generally. Sometimes I log on later. It depends on so much though. If I log on late, I'll take a shorter lunch (I'm not able to stay online later). If someone pulled me up on being a few minutes late then I'd never be logging on early or taking shorter breaks. It would literally be 9-5 with my lunch break.

[LunaHardy]

5 minutes every day adds up to a lot of time over a year... If he's taking all of his break and finishing at 5 on the dot, I would bring it up. However, if he's working into lunch or staying after 5, it's swings and roundabouts.

[CleverCatty]

@EatPrayYoga

His work otherwise is lacking and there is a general impression of not putting in enough effort or missing deadlines. If I ask for something by a certain time it is often late. There are often basic mistakes.

He is often late to meetings or forgets we have them. I have to say "are you coming to the meeting?"

It's not just the log on time but maybe I should put that aside and focus on the other things that are an issue.

He is behind on work so there is a problem and at least one other person doing the same role gets more done and in a shower yet time and he is no exceptional.

With this follow up I'd have a word with him.

Do you have 121s/catch ups with him? when was his last appraisal etc?

[Kirigiri]

If the green dot is MS Teams it's not necessarily an indication if someone is there or not. They could have Teams signed in on their phone or they might not have it to automatically login when they sign in to the computer. I email people often whose Teams show as away, sometimes for days but they are there working and replying to an email, they're just not logged into Teams

[CleverCatty]

@EdwardBear1920

Interesting as I was reading. One thing I think you should address is why the others need to start their work early and finish late. It might be if they were all at 9:00 and he was 9:05, and everyone finished at 17:00, it wouldn't look so bad. He's cutting down 5 minutes off the working day, which is not great but arguably, it's just 5 minutes. However, he's cutting down however long against what the others are doing, so their activity causes his to look worse than it might otherwise do. Note: I'm not trying to say they are doing wrong and it's their fault. Just that you need to look at him against his contract and not against his colleagues.

However, as I've read on, I think as a team leader it is your responsibility to discuss with him what's happening at work (all the issues you have, not the 5 minutes less), the impression it will be giving, and what he needs to do to be able to compete for the other roles. So, everything bundled up into a career progression discussion.

It adds up generally though. 5 minutes over the year really does add up.

Especially if other team members are logging on earlier etc.

[canigooutyet]

If you're not proactive in how you manage him this will reflect badly on you as well.

My dd suggests to her team that as they pass their pc's, switch it on and carry on doing your thing. Once it's all logged in, the user is seen as "idle" on her end.

If they were in the office, the computers don't get switched off as they operate 24/7.

[TokyoSushi]

Reason 436 why I love working for a tiny flexible company!

[ivfbeenbusy]

How many members of the team smoke or have a caffeine habit or have young children at home? If he has neither then over the course of the day not going outside for a smoke or making a 100 cups of coffee or getting distracted by the kids is more than going to make up for his 5 minutes???

[sugarlost]

I would look at his overall performance.
I wish I could win the lottery...I’m not cut out for work culture....

[canigooutyet]

Of course 5 minutes adds up.
25 minutes a week. For many this is nearly a lunch break.

[CleverCatty]

Just a side note here (work in government) - our bosses actually encourage us to take time away from our desks, maybe do a short work out video etc during the day because we aren't doing what we usually do, tea breaks can be quicker at home, we don't go to staff cafe etc or walk to printer.

[Strugglesjob]

5 minutes FFS, have you asked? If it's consistent everyday maybe there is a reason, and he can work until 1705 to balance it out. If he is behind with his work (actual work, not the above and beyond) then that's an issue and of course it would be reasonable to deal with that.

[user1493494961]

He should be ready to start at 9.00 am. It's his loss as he isn't going to progress is he.

[Whatafustercluck]

Surely it depends on core hours, contractual Ts and Cs etc. Our core hours are 10-4 but most people's contracts say 37 hours. Therefore if you worked 10-4 every day you wouldn't be fulfilling your contract. But if you did, say, 10 till 6 you would. But if you're in a call centre then clearly consistently logging on late is more of an issue.

[Basecamp65]

Wow - really there are employers who are this petty???

if he is working well and appropriately then why on earth would anyone have an issue with this.

If as you suggest he is not then managing his overall performance is important - not 5 mins.

I could log in an hour early and spend the next 2 hours reading or playing on my phone.

[Ashdownstar]

If people work 9 to 5 in an office, are they expected to be in before 9 so they can fire up their computer and start being productive straight away? DH does this working from home, and generally gets to the office a bit early, but is it actually expected?
I worked in a care home and there was an expectation that we'd be in 15 minutes early for handover, and it wasn't paid. I did it, but it did used to annoy me.

[TooTrueToBeGood]

I would focus on his underpermance. You might mention his time keeping as a possible factor as part of that conversation but I wouldn't focus on it. The quality, timeliness and quantity of his output is what should matter, not whether he starts booting his PC at 9 or is logged in and ready to go on the dot.

I'd also look at yourself as well, and I mean that kindly. As a manager, this is really not a question you should need to be asking others, certainly not random strangers who know nothing of your organisational culture. If you need coaching on how to manage, and there's nothing wrong with that especially in these unusual times, reach out for mentoring/support internally.

[sugarlost]

I also think organisations should factor in the impact of Covid on mental health...a tiny bit of flexibility can go a long way. Many people are suffering in silence.

[Plussizejumpsuit]

Being concerned about 5 mins is redic micromanagement. I can't believe you have enough to do if you can be on top of this tbh.

But the other stuff you've drip fed, he just sound a bit crap. However if you are his manager you have a duty to be sharing this feedback in 1 to 1s. It's really not fair to let someone do a crap level of work and only let them know about it when you are at the end of your tether.

He's not going to progress with a low standard of work. But I also think you need to think about your workplace culture if it relies on people doing unpaid overtime. I know this is common and both myself and my partner do this. But it shouldn't be the expectation.

[Di11y]

I'd raise it but more in a mentoring this is how to impress for your promotion, those 5 mins are giving off a bad impression.

[canigooutyet]

@ivfbeenbusy

How many members of the team smoke or have a caffeine habit or have young children at home? If he has neither then over the course of the day not going outside for a smoke or making a 100 cups of coffee or getting distracted by the kids is more than going to make up for his 5 minutes???

If he smoked why would he need to go outside and smoke?
If they have a laptop they can carry it to the kitchen, work and make a coffee, switch it on on the way to the toilet.

If young children are disturbing the employee the manager has to talk to them, just like they would if in office and couldn't work because of childcare issues.

[CakeRequired]

Mention it to him in a way to show him that his attitude kind of sucks and he'll be passed over for promotion in comparison to other people who arrive on time and manage their work better so can take on urgent work when he can't.