Are the school allowed to do this?

[EternalBeloved]

The kids primary school head teacher called me out of the blue a year ago, to tell me that she had concerns for my daughter and had spoken at length with both my children, amd that she wanted to see me 3 days later about it. She asked me not to ask my children about it until we had spoken in person about it. Im not sure if she was allowed to ask me that? The next 3 days were so tense and horrible for me, I was so stressed (I am very sensitive to anxiety anyway) that I could barely eat or sleep. The problem turned out to be that my daughter had been a little weepy at school. She turned around in the meeting and said that children who are being abused get a bit weepy at school. I assured her my daughter wasn't being abused and was having sleep issues. I was working hard to fix the sleep issues but no sleep makes my daughter prone to having a little cry, which I thought was quite normal. This happened several more times for the same issue and I became very distressed.

Fast forward to yesterday, I get a call from the school. Another cryptic meeting with the head teacher, this time about my son. We moved the kids to this school 3 years ago and right at the start I asked for some help with my sons learning as I am certain he has a learning difficulty. I've been in about 8 times in 3 years trying to get them to do something for him, there definitely is something as his teacher last year tore him to shreds at parents evening for lacking concentration, bad handwriting, being bossy etc etc and when I told her I think he has learning difficulties she said that is probably true but also did nothing about it.

I have spent the whole night worried sick about what they wamt this time. My question is, am I being unreasonable to expect some warning when I am going to be heaved in and what it is about? Am I allowed to ask to be notified in writing with a stated reason to save me going out of my mind woth worry that this is around the corner again? I am a good mum and my kids want for nothing, I work with them on their feelings as well as school work etc. I give them everything I can. Thank you for any replies, I just really needed to talk this out.

Do you have another adult who can attend with you op?

Might be worth referring your ds via gp and saying you suspect eg adhd or whatever your thoughts are. That way he’s already in the system as there is quite a wait

@makingmammaries

Maybe 'being heaved in' is one adult asking to speak to another adult.

When one adult requests another adult to attend for discussions, common courtesy demands that the reason be stated. That way, the discussion has a chance of starting on an equal footing.

Given how anxious the OP syas she is, how anxious her OP seems to show she is, maybe she misheard, misunderstood or has overwritten what was said with what she fears was said.

Maybe OP doesn't need lots of anonymous posters adding to her anxiety, about the shcool, HT, her own actions etc.

Not much of what OP says makes sense to anyone who works in a school. It is unlikely that HTs would disregard basic safeguarding in such a manner, so I am working on the assumption (as likely to be as right or wrong as anyone elses) that her anxiety has muddled this somehow.

I understand why posters are leaping n to make suggestions on how to 'correct' the schools. But I doubt it is helping to allay OPs fears at this point. Her first action should be to discuss this with the HT

@Onceuponatimethen that's got to be the best advice given.

meetings 3 days in advance Also, I've no idea why anyone is feeding this! 3 says is normal, pretty quick, for an HT to be able to schedule. Do you think "see you in an hour" is likely to be better received?

Have you gone onto the school website and checked if there are any relevant policies that cover parental meetings or pupil behaviour? Look through to see if there’s anything that covers your situation and read it to understand what is happening.

The head does sound rubbish. As PP have said, if she had genuine concerns that your child was being abused then it would have been a safeguarding issue that would have bypassed you!

Regarding your concerns about your son having a learning difficulty, going in 8 times in 3 years is not actually that much. I don’t want to sound harsh but you need to step up and fight. Getting a support plan can take a long time even with interested staff, but you have to fight for it. Get in there with your concerns every week!

And maybe move schools.

You should ALWAYS tell someone what the meetings about. Otherwise it’s either insensitive or designed to cause anguish and a power imbalance. Managers are well aware of this and I’ve noticed the bullying kind tend to use this tactic. Stand your ground. Demand to be told.

maybe she misheard

She is anxious, not deaf.

3 days in advance could also mean phone call on Friday, see her on Monday

@Joeyandpacey

You should ALWAYS tell someone what the meetings about. Otherwise it’s either insensitive or designed to cause anguish and a power imbalance. Managers are well aware of this and I’ve noticed the bullying kind tend to use this tactic. Stand your ground. Demand to be told.

This. It feels like a bit of a power play otherwise.

Totally agree that the OP should take someone with her to the meeting if possible.

@alljustamoopoint

maybe she misheard

She is anxious, not deaf.

Erm... never mind!

GAD can affect all social interactions in all sorts of ways. I am not belittling OP. I do understand how anxiety can wreck communication.

This sounds horrendous & really unsupportive. You need to move schools & yes as others have said be mire assertive.

‘Would it be possible to meet in three days to discuss the children? We want to support DD who we have noticed is tired and weepy and DS seems to be struggling a bit, too’ - reasonable.

‘We need to meet in three days.’ - not reasonable.

Not hard.

3 day wait to discuss an issue is ridiculous. Safeguarding concerns need to be investigated. If your kids are safe then you have nothing to be concerned about.
I was called in to see the safeguarding lead because my DC told a teacher she was scared because she'd seen a scary TV show on CBBC!!!! FFS

I would put a complaint in writing to the trustees about the headteachers handling of these issues.

Why is it that when someone on MN states they’re anxious, everything they relay afterwards is scrutinised, questioned and dismissed as their anxiety talking.
It must be so frustrating and demoralising to learn that having anxiety means lots of people won’t take you seriously.
Call the HT op and ask her to clarify the situation so you can go in prepared.

By Trustees I mean the school govenors!

I completely agree with CuriousaboutSamphire.

You’re asking for notice about a meeting, but that’s exactly what they’re doing when they call and ask for a meeting about your son. Why would it make a difference to your anxiety if it were to come in an email? It really doesn’t sound like the school is doing anything wrong, nothing you have said indicates the school doing anything they aren’t supposed to.

This is a problem only because of your anxiety.

It’s not true that every single safeguarding concern has to go directly to the authorities without speaking to parents first. Sometimes that is appropriate, often it isn’t, as in this case.

I would consider moving your children. I know it can be hard, but we made the difficult decision to move our eldest son away from our village school last year. The school had repeatedly highlighted an issue with his learning, and we had repeatedly requested guidance on how to support him with it (and had ended up getting a private assessment as they did nothing). Even with the assessment feedback he got no support. We moved him and the school immediately spoke to us about his lack of confidence learning and suggested a strategy to help him. He has weekly interventions for the area he struggles in, and overall, is a much happier, more confident child.

I would not be taking all this from a school.

Move schools. This is a terrible way to treat you all.

Im a teacher. If a child is weepy or a bit sullen, I almost always put it down to lack of sleep - which I have raised as an issue with parents before but in a "here's some support and resources" way. Not the way your school does.

I'd only be concerned about safeguarding issues if the weeping was accompanied by red flags.

@cansu

By the way the head's approach to your dd being weepy is odd. I would deal with whatever this issue is about and then move them.

^ This

In all my training as a designated safeguarding lead in a primary school, it was always rammed home that we should never speculate about the reasons for a concern about the welfare of a child, never mind voice them out loud to the child’s parent. It is never our job to “investigate”, simply to support the child and share our concerns with the parents, unless, of course, we had good reason to believe that doing so would put the child at risk of harm, in which case we would contact children’s social services.

Being weepy - in the middle of a pandemic - is definitely in the range of normal behaviour for a child. I would be asking the head teacher to desist from speculating about the reason for my child being weepy, and focus on supporting her to talk about her worries and developing strategies for managing her feelings at school.

I think the problem now is that you don't seem to trust school. I generally think the school has same interest as parents, to do better for children.
I don't think a child being weepy at school all the time is normal. The school has right reason to be concerned.
You don't state what the cryptic message you received. Maybe the message isn't cryptic, but you just see it that way because you have no faith in school?

If I were you, if the children are happy at the school, I would start trusting school a bit more. No one is there to get you, they want to do the best for children. But the trust having been destroyed and no way to go back, then maybe better to change school, if the children are actually not having great time.

I had this with my DS. Invited in for a meeting with head teacher and they refused to tell me what it was about. Kids kept in business managers office whilst I went in to be told DS had made an allegation about DH hitting him. Long story with DS eventually being diagnosed with ASD/ADHD but school put issues down to poor parenting. DS made the allegation in a fit of fury when he was being told off about something and didn’t even remember saying it, he was so cross. School referred to SS who dismissed and eventually we got diagnosis/support thanks to his lovely class teacher who let me cry on her shoulder all the time.

But yes, IME they can do this and do and it still makes me cry 8 years later.

When I was in Yr10 at school my Head of House used to come in to one of me lessons, roughly once a week, and say "Returns I need to see you in my office at break" which would be a couple of hours away
When this happened in English, the teacher said, you realise he does this so you will confess all your sins.
I wasn't a bad pupil, it transpires my parents had been in to express concerns and this was his way of dealing with it.

I have 2 children with SEND, I always make sure there's a clear purpose to meetings having lost more hours than I care to calculate achieving nothing. It's perfectly acceptable to ask for clarification as to why and to take support (such as an advocate) if you'd feel this is better.

I find an advocate helpful in diffusing from both sides btw

@CuriousaboutSamphire I think you have the answer here.

I would be worried too if I was called in without any idea of what was afoot but I do think you need to adjust your attitude on this. The school aren’t persecuting you for fun, their very poor communication style isn’t a personal attack. Think of it from the perspective that their only interest in this is the well-being and education of your children and so you and they are on the same side in this. They aren’t ‘heaving you in’, they are arranging an appointment to discuss concerns, some of which you might share. That’s a very different thing

Go into school with an open mind. See what they have to say. Hopefully you will all be on the same page and steps will be taken to help your son.
If not and If you disagree with what they stay calm. Say they have given you a lot to think about and you will be looking into it further and will get back to them.

And it wouldn’t hurt to calmly tell them at the start of the meeting that you have been very worried about what the meeting could be about. Then leave it to them to speak.

I don't think a child being weepy at school all the time is normal.

I don’t know how many schools you’ve worked in, @pastandpresent, but if a child has a tendency to be weepy, it absolutely is normal. If the child suddenly started being weepy for no apparent reason and this was a change in how she presented in school, that would be worthy of a phone call to the parents to express concern and offer support.

Not to speculate that the reason she is weepy is that she may have been abused. I wonder if the head teacher has up to date safeguarding training?