Toxic neighbour: the sequel - is there anything I can do apart from keep my head down?

[thepeopleversuswork]

I've posted before about my nightmare upstairs neighbour here: some of you may recall this:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3611051-To-think-if-this-bothers-her-that-much-she-should-pay-to-get-it-sorted-herself

In case link doesn't work: for about 18 months she constantly complained to me about incredibly trivial things such as stray empty bin liners (which had nothing to do with me) getting into her wheelie bin etc. Things came to a head when she asked me to pay for an expensive appliance to be added to her boiler because she didn't like the noise which was made in her flat when my hot taps were turned on and off.

This sorry saga was resolved just over a year ago when after multiple attempts on my part to share the cost of getting the plumbing fixed she eventually complained to the council's environmental health department. Two very reasonable blokes arrived from the council, they inspected both our properties and said - as I had suggested all along -- it was a simple cheap plumbing fix which we should go halves on. I agreed and paid, as did she before getting into an audibly heated argument with the environmental health inspectors arguing that it was me that should pay for it. (I could hear them telling her to calm down and eventually storming out of her flat through the floor.)

So that was the end of that and for the past year or so I haven't heard a peep out of her, and obviously COVID has since happened and most people have got more things to worry about then ambient plumbing noises and stray bin liners. All quiet on the western front, I thought.

But in the last couple of days I briefly left a chest of drawers outside my flat as I initially tried to get it collected by the council recycling. They weren't able to do it and I was waiting for a friend with a car to pick it up and take it to a local furniture recycling place. This morning I looked out of the window when I was eating breakfast to see my neighbour taking loads of pictures on her phone: not only of the chest of drawers but lots of other shots of my front garden and the front of my house.

I can't be sure but it looks as if she is putting together some sort of dossier of "fly-tipping" or other alleged antisocial behaviour to share with the council or some other outside agency.

I don't think she's got a leg to stand on: I've since moved the chest of drawers to my shed as its clearly not going to be that easy to get it picked up and I can't leave it for weeks, it was only out there for 24 hours, and my front garden and bins are all in decent, tidy shape.

I am really pissed off that she's photographing me and my property after everything that's happened and quite uneasy that she's about to start up more nonsense: I'm working really hard (from home) at the moment and I don't have the time or energy for more of this drama.

I'm torn between just wanting to keep my head down and hope for the best or warning her: it crossed my mind to ask my solicitor to write a letter but I'm sure that will antagonise her and she hasn't as far as I can tell done anything illegal. But I'm not prepared to go through another stressful exercise in being harassed by someone who is bored and vindictive over something really trivial at the moment and feel I need to put down a line in the sand.

If you/she/both are tenants of the Council or Housing Association, then lodge of formal complaint to them of her harassment of you. Include the noisy plumbing incident, any others, and this recent behaviour. It must break the terms of a tenancy agreement.

Don't wait for any further incidents, get some action done now. You shouldn't have to live with some nasty piece of work looking to make your life more difficult.

@YouKidsIsCrazy

If she’s taking photographs of you personally within your home or garden that’s against your human rights

No it isn't.

I agree.

Taking pictures of a person easily visible through an open door or a window with blinds/curtains open isn't a violation as the person doesn't have a 'reasonable expectation of privacy'.

Even if she does go to the council, they won't actually do anything (especially now that you've moved the item!).

We moved into our house at the end of February and it had undergone a substantial renovation. The joiner was doing the final odd jobs and had agreed to arrange a collection of all the renovation rubbish in the back garden before he finished up (cardboard boxes, pallets, old skirting boards, etc). Sadly the relationship ended on a very sour note and he upped and left, leaving all the shite in the garden. Lockdown quickly followed, the dumps all closed and uplifts were on hold.

Over the summer my nosy neighbour went to the council about us and all they did was write a letter that said either get it cleared or they would do it and charge us. I felt like writing back and asking how soon they could get here because nobody else seemed to want the bloody job!

Obviously YANBU but for your own sake keep it in perspective. You can complain she is harassing you and keep your own dossier and you can stand up to her quite easily and tell her that her idiotic ideas are crazy. A lot of people try it on.

Or try and be inventive. My neighbour started complaining about lots of little things. I own her driveway (she has a right of access) and her septic tank is on my land and drains across it. So whenever I saw her, I suggested that her septic tank pipework was leaking onto my land and causing a dangerous hazard and that it might be a good idea to get it all dug up and replaced. Every time I see or hear from her I remind her.

I haven't seen or heard from her for months now.

There will be something your neighbour might be doing wrong that you can run with, I'm sure.

Quickly go and put a sign on the item & take your own photo.

I know it's hard (and I'm in no way saying you should put up with being harassed) but I think it's really important to try not to give stuff like this too much headspace beyond taking sensible precautions to protect yourself. It's really easy to let it take over your life, especially when it relates to your home and you're there all the time but you have to keep reminding yourself you're doing nothing wrong and refuse to allow her to make you feel paranoid about living your day to day life.

Documenting everything you see and doing stuff like the signs on stuff to be collected are sensible ways of protecting yourself against any complaints she's planning to make but that's as much as you need to do imo and then you need to put it out of your mind and get on with your day.

Please don't let her make you uncomfortable in your own home, you only have anything to fear from her complaints if you're actually doing anything wrong and you're not. They probably already have her marked as a vexatious complainer and any investigations are likely to be going-through-the-motions exercises anyway so please try not to worry

Keep a copy that you contacted the council, copy of email/time of call/if you got a reference number etc. to prove you were trying to get it removed.

In my old flat everyone in the building got a letter about a fridge 'abandoned' at the side of the building. I phoned them because I was waiting to get it uplifted, had a reference number and had been told by them to sit it there. I put in a complaint as a letter was sent to 20 flats for absolutely no reason, nothing came of it although I wasn't expecting anything to happen.

The thing is, the OP actually has to live next door to this awful person. A few of these ideas are funny but are likely to make things escalate (and will make it look like it is a tit for tat to an outsider).

Keep a record of what happens when. Don't get into any correspondence with the awful neighbour. I like the idea of reporting her as a "vexatious complainant" but only if things do escalate.

I would just simply ignore. If you start taking pics then this will just inflame the situation. I wouldn’t even worry about justifying yourself. There’s simply no way the council would investigate you for fly-tipping (especially if it’s on your own land). At worst you would be in breach of your leasehold agreement, but that’s nothing to do with the council.

We have a nightmare neighbour. She's batshit crazy so there's no point being reasonable or predicting what she'll do. We've done the following after years of verbal abuse from her, complaints to the council, (none upheld), her photographing us and our kids and even filming us on her iPad!
Firstly, make a log - time, date, event and photographic evidence if possible.
Secondly, stop all means of communication which isn't recorded. Block her number, email etc, A simple letter recorded delivery stating you request her not to contact you shall do.
Thirdly, wait. No doubt she'll make a complaint, or photograph you. Record it all. When you have enough evidence you can either go to the police if it is a criminal matter - I caught our neighbour filming my young children in our garden by peeking over the hedge with a iPad or if its a civil matter, go to the council. We forwarded a copy of the ASBO given to our neighbour to the council `and suggested that if they continued to investigate complaints from her, they would be assisting in her harassing behaviour.
Set your boundaries, let her know them and engage as little as possible.

Might get shouted down here. Could it be that she was anxious about stuff left overnight ( you said 24 hrs) and wasn’t liking idea that would be eyesore for some days. Instead of a polite knock and ask, she took a obvious passively aggressively photo to tell you she was bothered by it. Before the bother over boiler happened she may have contacted you direct but that has now stopped her.
If so, it kinda has worked out ok as a communication method. She thinks you’re doing something that may be a nuisance and obviously goes out and takes a picture. You do something about it. She got problem solved
Especially if this is better than her actually talking to you 🙄🤣😂

For you that is.

I have a neighbour like this. Anything including invented things in his head are reported to the Police/Council. He does it to all his neighbours as he has a lot of time on his hands and no friends or relatives as far as I can tell. Not one of his complaints are true or have any baring on reality. Why they keep entertaining him is anyone's guess. I know the police have now marked him as vexatious.

I know it's difficult but please try not to give it any head space. I have been very upset and anxious in the past about my neighbour. What I do now is assume that he will complain and wait for the council to contact me. It now makes me laugh with the outlandish complaints. I do feel pity for him as this is all he has, everyone around here now hates him, but he has brought it on himself. I think he must have some mental health issues, but that is none of my concern.

Document everything, time, date, what happened and how it made you feel. Then you will have something to show the council when she inevitably makes a new complaint.

How do you think she’d respond if you asked her (in person, on phone or over text) “I saw you taking pictures of my house and it’s made me extremely uncomfortable and anxious. Why are you photographing my home?”

Thanks to everyone for your comments: some sound advice here.

To those of you saying I should ignore -- that's absolutely my instinct. I have neither the temperament nor the time to get into a back and forth with this woman over this sort of thing.

I guess I'm just taking a belt and braces approach as she's already shown herself to be pretty vindictive and I want to cover myself in case she makes a spurious complaint.

But thanks all of you anyway.

HannahYeah

I think this would be a red rag to a bull: she craves that kind of petty back and forth with people and I feel like it would be handing her more power than I want to. She's the kind of person who would have spent loads of time looking up her "rights" and anticipating any objections I might have to her photographing my property and would be ready with some reason as to why she's legally in the clear.

My strong preference would be not to have to engage with her at all unless its absolutely legally required. I kind of feel she thrives on this sort of bullshit dispute and I don't have the energy to engage with it.

That makes sense. I’d probably just ignore her because she sounds unhinged.

@thepeopleversuswork

HannahYeah

I think this would be a red rag to a bull: she craves that kind of petty back and forth with people and I feel like it would be handing her more power than I want to. She's the kind of person who would have spent loads of time looking up her "rights" and anticipating any objections I might have to her photographing my property and would be ready with some reason as to why she's legally in the clear.

My strong preference would be not to have to engage with her at all unless its absolutely legally required. I kind of feel she thrives on this sort of bullshit dispute and I don't have the energy to engage with it.

This is it exactly. They try to create drama. Grey Rock all the way.