Requesting Michael Jackson at gym?

[Bellabow]

Our PT asks if we have any song requests before the session.

A couple of times Michael Jackson sings have been requested.

AIBU in thinking (despite a few good tunes) it's inappropriate to listen to his music nowadays?

@BigBigPumpkin hahaha fair point!

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I can't believe that someone NEVER saw any movie by Miramax😱

I didn't say that. I said I hadn't seen a Johnny Depp film.

I said I'd look into the miramax issue

Shrodinger. Apologies. I've just reread my post and it wasn't clear I was only referring to Depp films

No problem. Happens to all of us.

He’s not played on Radio 2 that often at all these days tbf - not in comparison to a few years back anyway. In years gone by, Halloween would have meant none stop Thriller all day long.

I saw two programmes recently where they showed clips of The Cosby Show, discussing its contribution to television whilst at the same time acknowledging Bill Cosby’s convictions etc. It was all slightly awkward but they managed to make the point that the “work” might be considered separately to the person.

@Hiccupiscal

I still stand by he was never convicted, and in a court, was announced innocent. Allegations that cannot be proven, with concrete evidence, after death are all speculation.

The problem ive had with the men who came forward after death is they were also the same men wanting to work with Michael as adults, and defending him in court previously.
For most of thier allegations, there is no absolute evidence, so it is their word against a dead man.

As for it being common knowledge his victims were paid off, this doesn't wash with me either, if the stories are real and true, what kind of mother, father, family takes a cash payout? Who cares the amount. I wouldnt sleep until I saw the abuser locked up for good.

If a cash injection of shush money can make a case go away, where your child was horrifically abused, then the parents are just as bad as the abuser.

However I can imagine a innocent man, being so hounded, harassed and exhausted by the whole thing, that he would say - how much to make it stop?

I cant say anything for sure, but I go on the facts I know are true, and make my judgement from there.

......an I totally agree with the whole separate art from artist, PP have said.

Like it or not Michael was an incredible artist, and that cant just be erased because it doesn't suit us anymore.

I was coming to say all of this.

Michael was found unanimously not guilty in court. The Neverland documentary holds no weight when you look deeper into the alleged victims.

I’m not saying Michael didn’t do some odd stuff but he was deeply traumatised by his fathers abuse and the loss of his childhood to fame so I really don’t think his ranch or his childlike behaviour was that strange when you consider his past.

Hope you don't use any medication produced by medical firm Bayer, OP. They experimented on Holocaust victims during WWII and, I believe, have never apologised. They invented aspirin, among other things.

Hope you don't drive a Volkswagen or wear Hugo Boss. Also Nazi connections.

Hope you don't read The Guardian. They were founded with money from the slave trade.

Hope you've never watched a Disney film. Walt was allegedly a Nazi sympathiser. Hope you don't watch anything from ABC, National Geographic, Star Wars or Marvel. They're all owned by Disney now.

As a diabetic whose family died in the Holocaust I do use Bayer's products every day and have no problem doing so. I also have no problem listening to Michael Jackson or watching Woodie Allen.

I'd prefer not to watch Mel Gibson though. However I wouldn't force anyone else not to.

What I've come to understand, through a lot of reflection, is no one can draw a line in the sand for anyone else. It's up to each person what they feel comfortable with. Trying to force everyone else to toe your line in the sand is what has created cancel culture.

I'd prefer not to watch Mel Gibson though

@SebastianTheCrab - because of his anti Semitism or because you don't really taste him as an actor(/director)?

Sorry! That was supposed to be 'rate' NOT 'taste'

Sounds like you wanna be startin something

I implore you all to watch Square One on Amazon Prime, especially those who are “on the fence” about MJ’s innocence. It’s an eye opener.

And yes, I absolutely still listen to his music and believe it should be played at the gym (and everywhere!)

*PMSL at comparing Michael Jackson’s music to Rolf Harris’s. I mean, hits such as thriller vs what? Two little boys? Tie me kangaroo down? Yeah. Some stiff competition there. I’m fairly sure Rolf Harris wouldn’t be being played on the radio even if he hadn’t been convicted....

But that aside, MJ was never convicted. And irrespective of that, he was a talented artist and it is entirely possible to separate the art from the artist.*

^ this

I think there is a massive difference between choosing not to listen to his songs yourself as a result of the allegations, and trying to stop others listening to them.
Yes, indeed.

I find it that the OP managed not to hear a peep about Harvey Weinstein.

Would you object to David Bowie?

@Lougle

I don't see what his estate receiving profits has to do with anything? The people receiving the money haven't done anything wrong. His talent was undeniable. It's his talent you're listening to.

If, and it's only an if, he did wrong, that doesn't stop his music being brilliant.

I assume his parents have hugely benefited from his estate and I certainly think they have done a huge amount wrong! The father has admitted himself that he beat the kids are was tyrannical.

@19lottie82

Would you object to David Bowie?

David Bowie slept with willing underage groupies as have many, many, many other pop stars of yesteryear. So personally I happily listen to Bowie but everyone has the right to be offended on other people’s behalf.

I’d be interested to know if any of those underage groupies made complaints about him when they became adults? Does anyone know?

I still occasionally listen to Lostprophets. There were four other lads in that band producing music, not just Watkins. I don't really feel guilty when 'Last Summer' comes on my playlist.

Now that was a shocking case!!!! Thank fuck that psychopath got justice. I feel immensely sorry for his band mates as their music is now totally tainted.

I'm with you OP but it doesn't seem to stop many others.

@justanotherneighinparadise

Now that was a shocking case!!!! Thank fuck that psychopath got justice. I feel immensely sorry for his band mates as their music is now totally tainted.

It is and at the time I loved their music, went to their gigs, wore the shirt etc. Now it's just the occasional song that I loved that pops up, I do pause and then remember the other four guys that made that song and crack on.

His band mates did try with new music under other names I believe but never had the same success.

I'm using 'Thriller' in my Halloween playlist for my class on Saturday as people have asked for it and I don't feel uncomfortable with it.

As others have said, he was tried in a court of law when he was alive and found not guilty. The Neverland Documentary doesn't hold much weight when one/both of his accusers testified in his favour at his trial. He was never convicted. I think there was also questions about one of the accusers motives in resurfacing all of the accusations.

Also with Lost Prophets, the remaining band members begged fans to not let Ian Watkins taint their music, they weren't aware of what he was doing and were just as involved in their music so i do on occasion still listen to them too.

I think its down to individual opinion as to whether you continue listening/feel comfortable.

@waltzeswithsnobs

I'd prefer not to watch Mel Gibson though

@SebastianTheCrab - because of his anti Semitism or because you don't really taste him as an actor(/director)?

Anti semitism and sexism but it's not those things alone - I'm a huge Disney fan and as I said before it's believed Walt was an anti-Semite. I still think he was a genius (and I hope the rumours are wrong).

So with Gibson it's the sum of his entire, disgusting, personality, which comes out through his racism and sexism. Which is annoying because I used to fancy John Smith in Pocahontas and now I just think of Gibson when I watch it (he did the voice). Equally Tom Cruise has never done anything wrong but I find stories of his personal life so weird I can't really watch any of his movies.

And I used to listen a bit to LostProphets when I was younger but I honestly don't think I can anymore. Deleted their songs (which were good) from my iPod a few years ago.

I guess for me it comes down to - if I listen to or watch this thing with this person will I keep thinking about their crimes (or some other aspect of their personality) or can I just enjoy their art and escape? Depending on each individual's personal experiences the answer will vary from artist to artist. That's why cancel culture is so poisonous.