Requesting Michael Jackson at gym?

[Bellabow]

Our PT asks if we have any song requests before the session.

A couple of times Michael Jackson sings have been requested.

AIBU in thinking (despite a few good tunes) it's inappropriate to listen to his music nowadays?

Yanbu

I still stand by he was never convicted, and in a court, was announced innocent.

Allegations that cannot be proven, with concrete evidence, after death are all speculation.

The problem ive had with the men who came forward after death is they were also the same men wanting to work with Michael as adults, and defending him in court previously.
For most of thier allegations, there is no absolute evidence, so it is their word against a dead man.

As for it being common knowledge his victims were paid off, this doesn't wash with me either, if the stories are real and true, what kind of mother, father, family takes a cash payout? Who cares the amount. I wouldnt sleep until I saw the abuser locked up for good.

If a cash injection of shush money can make a case go away, where your child was horrifically abused, then the parents are just as bad as the abuser.

However I can imagine a innocent man, being so hounded, harassed and exhausted by the whole thing, that he would say - how much to make it stop?

I cant say anything for sure, but I go on the facts I know are true, and make my judgement from there.

......an I totally agree with the whole separate art from artist, PP have said.

Like it or not Michael was an incredible artist, and that cant just be erased because it doesn't suit us anymore.

I don't think it's that he was a criminal, or accused of a crime. I don't know about the other people NewCross mentions - was there any justice in those cases? I'm certainly not going to research people's backgrounds or expect anyone to be perfect. It's the feeling that he evaded justice because of his wealth which is my problem with listening to his music. I feel like I would be complicit if I listened.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

Have you stopped watching any films produced by Miramax and petitioned Netflix to stop showing them? Likewise with Johnny Depp films?

Do you take care to avoid anything with Michale Fassbender in?

Do you complain to networks that show reruns of Gossip Girl?

If you have DC at school, have you checked to make sure that they don't watch the Polanski version of Macbeth?

I mean, either you want to take a stand about art produced by men who have been convicted or accused of offences, and are surprised that anyone would give it airplay, or you don't and you're not. But just picking one of them to focus on seems rather bizarre?

And wholeheartedly agree with all this.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross Im not keen on hearing songs by Gary glitter or Chris Brown either.

Your other mentions? Don't really cone across them in my world

As for it being common knowledge his victims were paid off, this doesn't wash with me either, if the stories are real and true, what kind of mother, father, family takes a cash payout? Who cares the amount. I wouldnt sleep until I saw the abuser locked up for good

You have no idea how American justice system works have you?

I was never a big fan of Michael Jackson's music anyway ,but many ,many people are and regardless of what I think objectively he was a very talented artist ,I watched out of Neverland and did find the two men very compelling ,wether he was a child abuser or not he was very odd and had his every whim pandered too.

@Iamaamazing - I think he physically assaulted an ex partner? As far as I recall

MJ whether he abused kids or not no one will ever know for certainty.

But he trampled all over their bounderies.
If Joe Bloggs down the road had sleepovers with kids,nobody would be saying its ok hes a kid himself.Even if hes 40.

He still did dubious things and bought and groomed the parents as well.

[quote Bellabow]@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross Im not keen on hearing songs by Gary glitter or Chris Brown either.

Your other mentions? Don't really cone across them in my world[/quote]
You've really never watched anything produced by Miramax or anything with Johnny Depp in? Okaaaaaaaay

And also - it's out of sight out of mind for you then? Abusive men are OK as long as they are ones you don't come across in any way in your everyday life? It must be very comfortable to have such a - narrowly defined moral compass.

[quote Iamaamazing]@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross
What did Michael fassbender do?? I love his movies.[/quote]
He was accused a number of years ago of a very ugly assault on an ex-partner, including breaking her nose.

I'm going to continue to read this thread as I find it interesting, but not going to continue to contribute, just because I cant get worked up about if he was an abuser or not, because we will never know the truth, unless there is new and concrete evidence.

Not to mention his innocence or not isn't the topic of conversation, we were asked is it unreasonable to play his music...

IMO, No its perfectly reasonable to listen to his music, its also reasonable to turn it off if you dont like it, I turn the radio off when I hear Katy Perry or Cheryl Cole, I am not unreasonable for doing so.

(And to a PP, no i am not clued up on the American justice system, so if you wish to enlighten me, I shall catch up with the thread later and read what you might like me to understand)

Music is music. Liking the songs doesn't mean people agree with his character or actions. YABU. I love his music.

As he was never convicted of any of the crimes he has been accused of I don’t think you’d be in any position to object. You could say you just don’t enjoy his music.

He was found not guilty. The "victims" didn't raise their claims until he was dead (at which point they cannot be sued for defamation). The "victims" were paid a hell of a lot of money for saying what they did. Other children who were there denied their accounts and said they were lying - why would other "victims" call these people liars simply to protect the reputation of a dead man? The "victims" themselves testified at his trial to say they weren't abused. The "victims" stories were inconsistent and some elements were provably untrue...
Do you honestly think no one should listen to the music of an artist if they're accused of child abuse even if the evidence shows that the allegations aren't true AND they were found not guilty after a trial?!

You'd think so. I still hear him on the radio which I think is weird. You certainly don't hear Rolf Harris played! PMSL at comparing Michael Jackson’s music to Rolf Harris’s. I mean, hits such as thriller vs what? Two little boys? Tie me kangaroo down? Yeah. Some stiff competition there. I’m fairly sure Rolf Harris wouldn’t be being played on the radio even if he hadn’t been convicted....

But that aside, MJ was never convicted. And irrespective of that, he was a talented artist and it is entirely possible to separate the art from the artist.

I’m not the world’s biggest Michael Jackson fan, but I do think that for nobody to ever listen to his music again would be an unnecessary loss to pop music as a whole.

His music isn’t directly anything to do with his alleged crimes, so I don’t really see the need to make a fuss if people still like to listen to it. He made some great songs, and was arguably the foremost pop artiste of his time.

Don’t get me wrong - even before all the accusations he was weird and creepy and I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the same room as him. I am completely able to separate the man and the music and enjoy one whilst disapproving of the other.

It's sad that, when these things come out after death, neither side gets justice. The allegations against Cliff Richard have been proven to be completely unfounded, but if they'd come out after he died, there would not have been a thorough investigation and his reputation would have been ruined forever.

I still have Michael Jackson's music on my ipod, and I do enjoy it. I can separate that from the many unanswered questions that there are about his lifestyle.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross nope not seen any of those. Just checked imdb. Though have probably had a Perfume advert on inadvertently - I tend to tune out to them

Wasn't aware of any miramiax issues, I'll investigate them thanks.

Don't watch Kevin spacey now either.

And also - it's out of sight out of mind for you then? Abusive men are OK as long as they are ones you don't come across in any way in your everyday life? It must be very comfortable to have such a - narrowly defined moral compass.

Don't really understand this? Should I be actively searching for stuff to avoid?

@ChaChaCha2012

It's sad that, when these things come out after death, neither side gets justice. The allegations against Cliff Richard have been proven to be completely unfounded, but if they'd come out after he died, there would not have been a thorough investigation and his reputation would have been ruined forever.

I still have Michael Jackson's music on my ipod, and I do enjoy it. I can separate that from the many unanswered questions that there are about his lifestyle.

The men who accused him in the documentary had the option of telling the truth in his trial and getting him convicted. For their own reasons they chose not to do that. So no it’s not sad. They had the opportunity and chose to let him walk free.

@Bellabow

And also - it's out of sight out of mind for you then? Abusive men are OK as long as they are ones you don't come across in any way in your everyday life? It must be very comfortable to have such a - narrowly defined moral compass.

Don't really understand this? Should I be actively searching for stuff to avoid?

A lot of people spend their time looking for things to be offended by...

@Hiccupiscal

He was never convicted. The latest allegations came out after hes dead. Conveniently, he cannot defend himself. Innocent until proven guilty, and his guilt has never been proven (i am certainly not saying he is innocent, as his accusers have made good cases, but hes also never, ever been proven guilty)

I hear his music and enjoy it, as do my DC, his contribution to music really was outstanding.

Jimmy Saville was never convicted and any accusations that came out were after his death? Nothing has ever been proven. So using your logic we should sit in on a Saturday night watching reruns of Jim'll Fix It?

@ChaChaCha2012

It's sad that, when these things come out after death, neither side gets justice. The allegations against Cliff Richard have been proven to be completely unfounded, but if they'd come out after he died, there would not have been a thorough investigation and his reputation would have been ruined forever.

I still have Michael Jackson's music on my ipod, and I do enjoy it. I can separate that from the many unanswered questions that there are about his lifestyle.

They didn't "come out" after his death. Some families went to the press and alleged MJ was abusing their children (in exchange for a lot of money) - the press reported it and the police investigated it. The police dropped the case due to lack of evidence, the press then attacked the police/prosecutor so the prosecutors ran with the case. The alleged victims (and others) testified at his trial and said he never abused them and MJ was found not guilty. After MJ died, some Netflix documentary makers then contacted those same alleged victims and offered them a lot of money to change their story (because once someone has died, you can say anything about them and can't be sued for defamation). Only two of them agreed to the deal - a number of others have stated that those two are lying for money and that they were offered the same deal and turned it down. I'm not a massive MJ fan but he was investigated and tried in court and was found not guilty - there's literally no evidence against him.

I love his music but I do believe he was a peodophile which makes me uncomfortable to like his stuff but he was a great performer. I like used to love R.Kelly too. The film his 'I believe I can fly' song plays in was on the other day and I swear they cut it out. Usually plays at the end but it didn't.