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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sick of people from Southern England blaming everyone in Northern England for the Tory government?

62 replies

Purpledaisychain · 28/10/2020 08:33

When loads of people from Southern England voted Tory too?

When you look at the election map, it shows that there are more blue areas in the South than up North. But the way some people carry on at the minute, you'd think that the South was all red.

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 28/10/2020 09:35

What I have seen is that since the Brexit vote and the last election it has become increasingly socially acceptable among southern lefties to diss the north as full of thick racists. It used to be unacceptable because there was more of a victimy view of the north, now this has given them an excuse to say that any poverty in equality in the north pretty much serves them right.
Obviously #notallsouthernlefties, but it is a view that would not have been acceptable 5 years ago and it is increasing.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 28/10/2020 09:36

That should say poverty and inequality.

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 28/10/2020 09:36

‘households that are wealthier have always voted Tory as it will benefit them’

Ha ha ha. What a load of crap! I live in Sheffield Hallam. One of the richest areas outside London. We returned a Labour councillor the last 2 elections, and before that we had the dubious pleasure of Nick Clegg.

However the ward has lots of teachers, lawyers, doctors, lecturers. The more educated a person, the more likely they are to be a socialist.

rainyoutside · 28/10/2020 09:39

I don’t even think it’s always as simple as benefits everyone / benefits the rich / benefits whoever.

I think most of us have experienced being chased down the street by a Chugger saying something like “but don’t you CARE about deaf children / monkeys / cancer” and for most of us the answer isn’t “no, I don’t give a shit,” it’s that “other things in my life are more important.”

We are able to apply this logic to charity quite easily. Most people who have any sort of standing donation choose the issues that are most important to them, usually (not always but I’d say in nine out of ten cases) something with a personal link. No one has an issue with this and on the contrary it’s often seen as both sensible and compassionate.

When electing a government similar principles tend to apply whether people realise it or not. So emotive rhetoric doesn’t work then either. You can say to someone ‘but don’t you CARE children go hungry under the Tory government’ but truth is it will have little impact for two reasons. One, because while Labour might handle it differently it still isn’t the personal responsibility of the person you’re shouting at and two, their answer is probably yes - but other things are more important to me at this moment in time.

For my part, I look back over the Blair/Brown years and I simply don’t see a utopia. I think they brought some good things in, such as the minimum wage, and I think that had a positive impact on the country as a whole. Other things may have appeared, in the short term, to have made positive changes. However, twenty years down the line perhaps they didn’t. Some will disagree of course: it largely depends on your own perception and your own beliefs.

Some parts of The North might be deprived, but deprived might not mean quite what you think it does. I spent the weekend in a frightfully posh place in rural Hampshire. It had beautiful country cottages and private schools on every corner and was quite the delight. Coming back to the grim north Grin I can see perhaps if you contrast the two it’s easy to see deprivation and poverty. But it isn’t that simple.

I would say the typical voter who changed from labour to Tory is not someone living in a back room huddled over a gas fire and eating bread and dripping while his wife and children collect food parcels, their hollow eyes longing for a better life Hmm They probably live in a small house, but it’s clean: tacky by mn standards of course. They will spend a lot of money on a pram when they have their babies because that’s a status symbol. Children of the same sex are often dressed in identical clothing for the same reason (no hand me downs.) Smoking is far more common (and that’s not cheap.) What I’m trying to convey here is that class differences are almost like cultural differences: different diet and different way of doing things and different celebrations: even though ostensibly we might all celebrate Christmas there will be different ways of doing things.

These people are not helpless infants: on the contrary, they are often quite proud and sneer at the idea of accepting hand me downs, second hand clothes, food parcels.

Traditionally, Labour was the party for the working man. Labour fought long and hard for some rights at work and so they fucking should. Think back to the days when people lost hands, arms, lives in factories, mines and mills. Labour swung from this circa 1997. There’s no fight for the working man or woman because actually they hold the working man or woman in contempt. Public sector workers yes - union dependent. Mix of low pay and benefits or solely reliant on benefits - yes, a generous welfare system perpetuating poverty. A system where your average prole isn’t elevated to the middle classes via a worthless degree but is actually supported and respected in his or her working class home and job? Pffffffft.

And some of you dare call them thick for wanting something else? Well. I say YOU’RE thick!

KenDodd · 28/10/2020 09:46

Surely the south should be thanking the north for voting Tory. After all, the south east is Tory land, so but the north turning Tory, the south gets what it wants and always votes for..

MrsCalypsoGrant · 28/10/2020 09:48

@WorksTheDinerAllDay I couldn't agree more

I'm aware that it's far more complex this, so apologies for the crass generalisation, but as a northerner who has campaigned for Labour for generations I can't get away from feeling resentful that folk in the south of England who consistently voted Tory through Thatcher, Major & beyond - giving us governments who completely stuffed whole areas of the north of England, Scotland & Wales - are now complaining that it's northerners who have got the Tories into power. I'm frustrated on lots of levels - the idiocy of Labour under Corbyn, the idiocy of the northern working classes voting for Boris. But the idea that the north is responsible for Tory dominance in England is irksome.

TheScreamsTheTerribleScreams · 28/10/2020 09:50

@WorksTheDinerAllDay

There's only one person to blame for the current Tory government. That's Jeremy Corbyn. It was obvious from the get go to anyone with half a brain that he was never going to get elected as PM. But he is a stubborn wanker who stuck it out as long as possible. Labour may have had a chance with Theresa's 2017 election if they'd had a decent leader. He should have stepped down before then and given someone else a go, but his ego prevented him from doing so. He had a Messiah complex and we've got Boris as a result.
This right here is the only post you need to read on the matter. Very succinctly put, very true.
whoareyouIwonder · 28/10/2020 09:50

This reply has been deleted

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TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 28/10/2020 09:51

^ totally agree with this. I’m a northerner who has voted Labour al my life too.

We need to wait for demographics to shift. I have a Millenniall. Him and his peers hate the Conservatives.

I have a Gen Z. I had a conversation with her last night, along the lines of your generation can be the ones to drive change. She told me her and her friends think the Tories are a joke and laughable. And they will never vote for them.

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 28/10/2020 09:53

And, for all those southerners blaming the North. I feel the North wants to break free of London and Boris. Like Scotland and Wales do.

KenDodd · 28/10/2020 09:58

There's only one person to blame for the current Tory government. That's Jeremy Corbyn

Right so nobody who chose to vote Tory, out of all the other choices they could have made, is in any way responsible for the fact we have a Tory government?

KenDodd · 28/10/2020 10:02

I know the Tories and Tory supporters are absolutely excellent and blaming anyone and anything else for any failings or responsibility. Don't fall for it though. The Tory party are 100% responsible for everything they do and Tory voters are 100% responsible for electing them.

Purpledaisychain · 28/10/2020 10:04

@ariettesmall

What are you on about? I never said that anyone didn't have the right to complain? All I am saying is that it is a bit hypocritical for people from the South to try to heap all the blame on the North when plenty of Southern areas voted Tory too???

I'm a northerner, which means I'm not good at taking shit from people.

OP posts:
KenDodd · 28/10/2020 10:06

I bet poor people in the north will be blamed for Brexit as well. Completely ignoring the fact that vast numbers of very comfortable older people in the home countries voted Leave.

rainyoutside · 28/10/2020 10:06

‘Blame’ and ‘responsibility’ are problematic words with democracy.

CakeRequired · 28/10/2020 10:07

Why don't you all make the sensible decision to actually start blaming your useless politicians than blaming Sandra in York?

You know, actually blame the people who are voting against what you want? Blame the people in government who are fucking things up?

No? Too sensible perhaps? Hmm Keep blaming the voters instead, and keep voting the same way. That's how change happens. Hmm

Southerners can call northerners thick, or vice versa. You're all thick because you're focusing on the wrong fucking people. Blame the twats in power, complain constantly, send emails every day complaining, harass the bastards into doing the right thing. Or just sit whining on mumsnet about Tracy who voted the same way as you.

chomalungma · 28/10/2020 10:13

Why don't you all make the sensible decision to actually start blaming your useless politicians than blaming Sandra in York

Inner York definitely Labour
Outer York - always Conservative

So don't blame Sandra in York.

rainyoutside · 28/10/2020 10:18

I honestly think there are some on here who would just have a dictatorship.

Orcus · 28/10/2020 10:21

@KenDodd

There's only one person to blame for the current Tory government. That's Jeremy Corbyn

Right so nobody who chose to vote Tory, out of all the other choices they could have made, is in any way responsible for the fact we have a Tory government?

Seemingly.
Violetparis · 28/10/2020 10:24

Most people can work out that some people in the North voted Labour, some voted Tory just like people in the South did. Sweeping generalisations from all sides of politics are just ridiculous.

Goldenbear · 28/10/2020 10:34

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince, it's not really a load of crap is it? By wealthy I mean households with £1 million or more, they are not the teachers, the lecturers, they are the property developers, the bankers, the lawyers, that polarised division exists and it is disingenuous or naive to suggest it doesn't.

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 28/10/2020 10:42

Yes, l agree, some wealthy people will vote to retain the status quo.

But not all.

derxa · 28/10/2020 10:50

However the ward has lots of teachers, lawyers, doctors, lecturers. The more educated a person, the more likely they are to be a socialist.
I'm sure you've got a raft of studies to back this up but it sounds so wankerish

rainyoutside · 28/10/2020 11:02

It’s also not true.

With the exception of lawyers, the above are public sector workers. They have a vested interest in voting Labour, so it’s disingenuous to claim they do it out of a natural nobility and compassion.

KenDodd · 28/10/2020 11:19

Not all the rich or even well off want to avoid paying more tax.

www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-asking-for-wealth-tax-americans-disney-soros-buffett-dalio?r=US&IR=T

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