To think you don’t “accidentally” strangle someone to death?

[DrizzleandDamp]

I give up, no murder conviction for this man:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8884251/Police-officer-41-not-guilty-murdering-wife.html

There is no point me pursuing my case when these are the decisions made!

Judging by some of the comments on Mumsnet I dread to think what juries are like towards women victims.

@SmileEachDay

case of murder the prosecution have to prove beyond reasonable doubt the person on trial intended to kill the victim and that it was premeditated. In this case that would be him going to meet her in the car park with the very clear intention of taking her life

Is that true? Legally it would have to be before he met her?
What if he decided to kill her when he was in the car?

No, it doesn’t have to be premeditated as in the common sense meaning of the word. What you need is for the act and the intent to coincide. So if he decided to kill her whilst in the car (and it could be proved beyond reasonable doubt), then it would be murder.

stackemhigh that’s the cases that even get to court which are few and far between for the reasons PP including Goose have intelligently described. You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. So most don’t bother at all even trying.

Plan thank you.

@IronLawOfGeometricProgression

Are juries getting worse?

I sat on two cases and it felt as if 9 of my jury had immediately decided innocence or guilt almost on sight and just waited for some evidence to justify their original prejudice.

In the first, less serious, case there was very little evidence to speak of and the main thrust was he must've done it, who else could've? The prosecution demonstrated means and opportunity but nothing else. The 9 wanted to convict and talked another one round.

In the second more serious case the same 9 of my fellow jurors felt the nice white male defendant had been wronged by the female victim and they liked his barrister, and nobody wanted to convict him even though there was no doubt that he'd done what he was charged with. The defence barrister gave us an out and 9 of us took it. And they talked the same woman round again.

I still look for that defendants name in the news, certain he'll do it again.

I suppose juries reflect the rest of society. In general I feel like people are much less willing to hold back their feelings and try to keep to a strict rational engagement. Everything is very partisan.

But - I'm not sure that would return better results in these cases.

I've thought for a while that a lot of the science and expert evidence and information actually makes it harder to convict rather than easier.

It will come down to (I assume) him calling the ambulance- the manslaughter sentence.
Fucking bastard.

Lolly I thought he didn't phone the ambulance? I thought he made himself bleed then told passersby that she'd stabbed him??

The other thing is that acted out remorse doesn’t mean innocence or even real remorse. Crocodile tears is all I think about it.

Fuck me I am beyond words. Our lives are apparently worthless.

@RIPworkingmums

I’ve been following this case in the news. From what I’ve read, he did not meet her with the intention of killing her, therefore by definition it won’t be classed as murder sadly. Only those in court will have heard the full story (well, his side as hers can’t be heard any more can it).

Intent can be formed within seconds. At the point where he had his hands on her throat squeezing, he intended to do her harm.

But misogyny....

Regardless of whether it's deemed murder or manslaughter, she is still dead and the predator that killed her is still alive.

Hope his sentence in prison is a long one.

@Lollyneenah he did not call the ambulance. He claimed he did not realise she was “poorly”. He says he left the car apparently thinking she was fine, stabbed himself to make it look like her fault (make what look like her fault if she was so fine???) then was discovered by passers-by who called an ambulance for him. He didn’t even alert them to the fact she might need help too.

In the general case? Yes, it is possible to accidentally strangle someone to death.

In this case? It sounds like the jury is thinking there was no formed intent but even if that was true I think it's very close to the line.

I’m generally intrigued as to how you think it’s possible to strangle someone? A close colleague and friend was strangled and killed by her husband. He is stronger and to this day I feel sadness in my heart. A strong police officer and he accidentally Strangled her? Do explain?

It's bullshit.

@Sockmonster23

In the general case? Yes, it is possible to accidentally strangle someone to death.

In this case? It sounds like the jury is thinking there was no formed intent but even if that was true I think it's very close to the line.

I’m generally intrigued as to how you think it’s possible to strangle someone? A close colleague and friend was strangled and killed by her husband. He is stronger and to this day I feel sadness in my heart. A strong police officer and he accidentally Strangled her? Do explain?

Try reading the thread.

There is also probably an element of the "brave, hardworking police man" who made a mistake & now this wanton women is going to ruin his life. 🙄

He could still get a long term for manslaughter .

I expect they were having a massive argument , I am sure he intended to hurt her because she was about to make his life unravel . But with murder you have to prove premeditated intent to actually kill her

I think you would have to listen to the whole court transcript and the summing up to truly decide .

But let’s hope he gets a long jail term . A very long jail term .

@KarmaNoMore

I agree he would to a certain extent know the right things to say .

But in that case I think he would have called the ambulance immediately if he was being that calculating as it would have gone in his favour rather that fake a scenario . It sounds like he was panicking if anything . Totally lost his temper then realised what he had done . And he should be punished appropriately . The jail term can still be long .

If he intended to murder her would he have done or in a public car park ? I think he would have covered his tracks even more .

I expect they accepted a manslaughter plea because they were light on evidence for motive. He strangled her and killed her and I hope he gets the maximum tariff.

Also, manslaughter isn't really just killing someone by accident, it can effectively be murder with a mitigating defence such as diminished responsibility or even "loss of control" whatever that is.

Oh I know I've been following this study for ages. Vile man
Got away with it literally

The problem with the current system is that juries give no reasoning for their verdict so it is pure speculation as to why they reached it. In fact it is illegal to give away any details of the discussions.

So we don't know if the prosecution case was weak, if there was particular evidence presented by the defence that pointed to a not guilty verdict or if there was another reason

This is just awful.
Fucking MEN.

I agree with waiting for sentencing - he hasnt been found innocent overall - looking at it the judge hasnt decided which manslaughter he is guilty of and I reserve judgment until then.

Morally yes he killed her and murdered her. Legally for murder it isnt whether he accidentally strangled her it is whether he deliberately with intent caused her death. And that is something that needs to be proven rather than disproved.

Tomorrow when the sentence is given I think we will know whether he has gotten away with it or not

What an absolute piece of shit he is.

A lot won't agree with me, but someone with his obvious lack of morals should have been ousted from the force.

Let's hope he at least gets as long a term as possible.