DD wants to leave school....

[FortunesFave]

We're in Oz, you're meant to stay until you're 18 and get your school leavers cert and passes and everything.

She's 16 and coming to the end of year 10...the school year ends this term and then we have the big summer hols.

the next two years are the harder ones but she HATES it and if I'm honest, she's never liked school.

She's had some depression but strangely enough has always managed to enjoy socialising every weekend and turn up on time for her Saturday job which she also likes.

I feel disappointed and upset. It's been almost a whole school year with me desparately trying to keep her in school and school being very supportive. But I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE and am starting to feel it would be easier on us all if I let her leave.

But that feels like failure. She goes to a very nice private school...a small one, very artsy...like her...which is why it was chosen. She hated her school in England too.

She says she likes her friends (And she does, she has a lot of them) but that the classroom environment is terrible for her.

She's ready to start work. But her prospects won't be good will they? She's so fucking bright and clever and I'm so upset about it all.

Maybe she will go back to college and get her certificates in a few years or something? What shall I DO!? Her job will probably give her a few more shifts if she leaves...but is it the right thing?

I'd be looking at TAFE courses- lots of them have increased fi ding at the moment. If she doesn't want to do the next 2 years- it's a waste of her time starting, but I'd be supporting leaving as long as she was going on to do something.

You’re daughter cannot legally leave education until she is 17 years old. It doesn’t have to be school, but can be TAFE or another course, and I think apprenticeships might count too.

Perhaps she needs to look at moving to a senior college, specialising in year 11 and 12, and usually offering certificate courses that may not offered at regular schools, but still count towards completing her high school certificate.
I don’t have personal experience of this as I didn’t go to school in Australia (and my children are still in junior school), but a friend’s daughter was in a similar situation. She moved to a senior college, was much happier as she had more options, allowing her to work out what she wanted to do long term and completing her high schooling.

Good luck.

She needs to do something if she leaves after Y10 since they changed the rules so either TAFE or an apprenticeship (I'm in Aus so understand how it works). I appreciate your disappointment, I had to drag DS1 through Y11 and Y12, the fact that he is dyslexic didn't help, but his teachers were great (also small private school) and he did ok in the end. If he had had a clear idea of what he wanted as an alternative, eg a decent apprenticeship, I might have given in but I know now he is happy we insisted. I know other kids though who left after Y10 and were the happiest they had even been and you can always go back, once you hit 21 you are a mature student in most States and there are a lot of access courses. Maybe get careers advice from the school and have some realistic conversations about what grades she is likely to achieve based on her current work? Good luck.

Oh that's tough!

But if she leaves without her HSC she will find it very hard long term finding work.

I am an internal recruiter and the bare minimum for all our roles is completion of secondary college.

I think she needs a trade or to keep cracking on with school.

I had a few friends who struggled at high school but were able to complete their VCE at TAFE which treated them more like individual adults. Could that be an option?

@HateIsNotGood your comment doesn’t even make any sense. My daughter will be 4 and in full time education. That’s just life.

Not much to add but currently have a daughter in yr 11 who is creative but not academic and just diagnosed dyslexic so we are also having to think of different paths. Good luck and I thinks it's great that she loves her job and is happy socially.

If your DD can balance her PT job with a vocational TAFE course, it could really set her up for a good career. Without the HSC she might not get into a diploma course, but she could start with a Certificate II and work her way up. Practical quals and a good work ethic still have value in the Australian workplace.
Just make sure she knows that TAFE requires all applicants to sit a test in English and maths and achieve a good minimum mark before a place is offered. The tests are very practical, eg. write a letter to your council about a neighbour's dog howling all day; work out how many tickets you have to sell for a harbour cruise to make a profit. (I know all this because I've applied to do the Diploma of Nursing next year.)
I suggest you ask DD's school if they'll have her back the following year if she regrets her decision. She'll be a year behind her peers, but that's not much in the vast span of life. Otherwise, she could do HSC equivalent at TAFE, tho she's likely to be penalised in terms of ATAR for university selection. However, she sounds like the type who'll do all right no matter what false starts she might make.

I’d start with having her make a budget, because if a 16 year old isn’t taking school seriously, she is supporting herself. I might not show her the door, but full market rent, utilities, buying and cooking her own food, paying for her own food, toiletries, and transportation. My part is the Social contract is to provide her an environment to get an education, if she chooses to refuse to do her part, then my part is done.

well, she can...I mean she's only 16
So what will she be doing for the rest of the time?
You've got a 16 yo with a history of depression who might be working a few hours a day or a few days a week. Her friends will be in school. You and Dad will be at work.

Are you happy that's she's sitting around the house 8 hours a day watching telly for 2 years? Will that impact on her mental health?

Sleeping calm down. Nobody has said she'll be sitting around the house 8 hours a day watching telly for 2 years

She will go to TAFE and continue working part time. Her employer has also stated that she's going to look into apprenticeships....she might be able to take DD on in that way. She's an amazing woman with a fantastic business so hopefully that might be an option.

Thanks everyone for your measured responses. I feel calmer now I've spoken to TAFE and they assured me that this doesn't mean closing the door on further education. There are tonnes of options...I'll be going over it all with DD who seems very excited about it as the campus is in the city...which she loves and can get to easily on the train and there were at least 3 courses which seemed attractive to her straight away.

What does she actually want to do as a career? What does she do at her PT job and what does she like about it?
In response to your husbands reaction, I think it is worth noting that the apprenticeships typically undertaken by boys are generally better paid. Unless she is very resilient and willing to weather the sexism and do something like an electrical apprenticeship her options are not as likely to set her up comfortably in life. I would be nervous about her doing a subject like business or marketing at TAFE because she will be competing against university graduates in the same field. A lot of the bright women I know who studied things like PT, hairdressing or beauty therapy at TAFE have ended up going back to uni in their mid twenties because they were bored, lacked any further career progression and wanted to earn more money.

@FortunesFave

Sleeping calm down. Nobody has said she'll be sitting around the house 8 hours a day watching telly for 2 years

She will go to TAFE and continue working part time. Her employer has also stated that she's going to look into apprenticeships....she might be able to take DD on in that way. She's an amazing woman with a fantastic business so hopefully that might be an option.

Thanks everyone for your measured responses. I feel calmer now I've spoken to TAFE and they assured me that this doesn't mean closing the door on further education. There are tonnes of options...I'll be going over it all with DD who seems very excited about it as the campus is in the city...which she loves and can get to easily on the train and there were at least 3 courses which seemed attractive to her straight away.

I didn't see the post about TAFE, just the she can quit school and work part time if she wants to because you did.

TAFE sounds like a good idea although as an English person my limited knowledge of it is it see to be working Bella of Summer Bay 🤣

Not in Australia but Dd left school at 16. Did one year of a 3 year course at college then left to set up her own business.
Bought her first property at 18 and did it up by herself..

She was due a really good year this year.

Sometimes children get sick of school and education sooner than other children

I wish I could have left school at 14.
Staying on is just wasting everyone’s time.

I don’t agree on telling her to work f/t.
Great that she is going to work p/t and do a course. I think taking all the pressure off and helping her to find her way will have better long term results than coming down with a heavy hand and forcing her into f/t work.

So what if she wants to veg out in front of the tv some days.Sometimes you just need to decompress

She knows what she doesn’t want to do. School
Now she needs to know what she does want to do

Terrace58

My mother did that and I moved out. It was cheaper and I could claim benefits. I was better off in a rented flat than living at home.
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I left school at 16 and when I went back to studying when I was older it was so much more enjoyable. If you don't like a teacher as an adult, you find another one.

The specific requirements are different from state to state but she cannot just leave at this age - she has to go to a suitable job, vocational training or a combination.

She can do HSC at TAFE which can be a great option, or a specific TAFE course, or why not look at changing to a government school and using the money saved for some really good counselling with a Medicare plan from your GP? But avoid private vocational colleges - so many are really shonky.

In years 11and 12 you have more choices over what subjects you study. Is there anything in the school curriculum that she's really interested in.

Personally I think grade 12 is the best option. I've known people to do the same as your daughter is suggesting and then regret it.

What is she looking to do at TAFE?

If she changes to a government school she could also do a school based apprenticeship which can give her a day of work experience, a day of TAFE, an ATAR and even credit towards some tertiary courses depending on what she chooses. www.training.nsw.gov.au/apprenticeships_traineeships/employers/school_based.html

[quote Gremlinsateit]If she changes to a government school she could also do a school based apprenticeship which can give her a day of work experience, a day of TAFE, an ATAR and even credit towards some tertiary courses depending on what she chooses. www.training.nsw.gov.au/apprenticeships_traineeships/employers/school_based.html[/quote]
not is NSW but this is what our govt public high school offers. has a huge take up rate across many industries/ trades and very successful at keeping kids engaged in schooling that would otherwise have dropped out. not everyone thrives in the classroom or wants to do yr 11/12/ uni pathway.
supportive, positive and encouraging parents make a huge difference regardless of ed choices and its great your allowing her to think outside of trad schooling (rather than ruling it out completely). post covid fed and state governments are chucking money at training and apprenticeships (not just traditional trades either) so could be a really great time for her to make these decisions.

As in the UK, there is pressure on students to do the exams at the age-appropriate time. One way of achieving this is to make it eye-wateringly expensive to do the exams later, and cut adult education/evening classes to the bone, also expensive.

Moving schools might help. My DD loathed her school and went to another secondary for the VCE years and loved it, an opportunity to re-invent herself. She was happy and did well. Lots of government schools have links to TAFE via VET (that''s in Vic) for Years 11 and 12. There's a lot of snobbery about TAFE.

On her degree course later, DD found she could have cut a year by going to TAFE, then going to uni and being ahead on a full accredited course.
So while uni isn't everything, it's worth looking at what TAFE courses qualify you to do.

Echt I have considered that...the trouble is, the choice here is beyond awful. The only other secondary in the area is dreadful...lots of crime and lots of pregnancy. I called TAFE and the guy I spoke to said that some degree courses don't need a High School cert...and that she could work her way towards a degree via certificates...she's more than likely going to do something in media or arts.

I can't see her doing anything academic....her own private school did offer to have her do TAFE in year 11...unfortunately, she's just had enough of the environment...she's considered to be a 'delightful' girl by staff and is very popular and well-adjusted socially so the issue must be something to do with the routine and the classroom environment.

Honey I noticed that...about government funding for apprenticeships.

Her low-paid weekend job is likely to be pretty low stress. Of course she is happier with friends and at her job!

It sounds to me like some adult responsibility will help her along. Take her at face value. Sit her down at a PC, open a spreadsheet and make her budget. How much does she spend on going out, buying clothes, buying toiletry items, haircuts, her phone, any hobbies or sports, gifts for friends and family, transportation, holidays. Work out how much she spends per month, on average. Tell her an amount you would expect for her to contribute to the household food bill and running costs, make it reasonable (no profit)

Then look at prices of flatshares and food for a week etc. Because in a few years she will likely want to move out.

Look at jobs together online for people with no qualifications and see what she can do and how much she could earn. Tell her, she will need a job until she gets signed onto an apprenticeship scheme.

Have a look at what is available at age 18 that isn't available at age 16. As she might see something that needs a school certificate and having a target to aim for, and knowing she only has 2 years to serve in the prison that is school, might help motivate her to push through.

It is a kindness. She has to live in the real world, you can't stop her or protect her from it. Let her decide, if she truly hates school she won't flourish and a job might be better. She has a whole lifetime to get a formal education.

A very, very part time job in a wider more varied life has a novelty factor and low responsibility which makes it very attractive compared to the monotony and expectations of full time ed. That will be lost if it becomes her core focus throughout each week. The former also has much more of a free and easy vibe than when you're committed to a full time position and need it to pay the bills. There are lots of roles people enjoy greatly on a casual or voluntary basis that would make them miserable to do full time for a living.

If part of her objection to school is the full time nature, then that needs to be overcome for her to make her way in a world where she's unlikely to be able to support herself on a part time basis. Which is one reason I would be wary of facilitating her leaving full time ed for part time work - it just kicks the can down the road, time alone won't necessarily equip her to suddenly be able to work full time from 18. (Esp if a factor is depression fatigue.)

I would be reluctant to go with this on the basis of avoiding short term discomfort but then bringing about long term discomfort by increasing the barriers in her life. It's a lot easier to say you'll jump through a bunch of extra hoops and do a degree when you're older (with more responsibilities) than it is to actually do it.

My other concern is whether between you you can define what it is about the school environment that's problematic. Is it the academic style, the pressure to perform, the expectations, the routine, or is it the monotony of being there full time? If you can't pin down the specifics of the problem there is a risk it will be encountered again and again somewhere else and you will still have no solution other than to give up. (Even if she doesn't stay, she needs to know what the specific issue is and address that in her future life rather than running from it in the present iyswim).

Also the world is a different place now for people without higher quals. It is much harder to work your way up without them than it was when your husband went through it.

Anyway, that said, I've known a few teens like this. A couple stuck it out and pushed against it, having a continuously changing idea of what alternative they wanted. It mostly seemed that they found school tedious/monotonous and wanted an easier option (several comments about how much easier working would be than school). The others had vocational goals and did apprenticeships that suited them.

I am not under any illusions about modern education systems meeting the needs of all children - clearly they come nowhere close - but the trouble is she will still have to make her way in the society we currently have with all its many barriers, whether we agree with them or not!

Depression can also be a bugger because sometimes it puts you in a constant state of searching for something, anything new to chase after to fix how you're feeling in your present life - only the depression comes along with you no matter what you chase. Although of course sometimes depression is situational so changing the situation resolves it - but you do need to know which it is before you leap ideally!

Those are the things that would worry me and I would want to consider. It does sound like you have decent information about an alternative plan. Obviously, your daughter so you know her best and I hope whatever path she goes down she finds what she needs to thrive.

Can you home educate and enter in for examinations privately? I’m not sure how it works there.