AIBU to think I'd rather take my chances with the virus...

[User3billion]

...than give up any more freedom?!

I'm in a tier 3 area and I'm so done. I'm sick of people in tier 1 areas preaching on social media about what we should and shouldn't be doing (especially given it can vary from one tier 3 area to the next). I'm sick of feeling like a prisoner in my own home. I'm sick of not being able to trust a single thing our government says.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with. And what's worse is that people are happy to go along with this! It's all kinds of wrong.

We deride other countries that deprive their citizens of their civil liberties and yet here we are.

It reminds me of when my gran was alive. She had cancer and it was managed rather than cured, and she outlived her initial prognosis by a good 5/6 years.
One year I wanted to buy tickets for myself, my mum and my gran to see a show. Bit mum pointed out that grans compromised immune system meant that it wasn’t a good idea.
My gran is dead now, the cancer got her in the end, but we don’t have that special memory of a smashing night out on the town, just the three of us. I know how much joy that would have given us.
My parents could die of strokes/heart attacks/ car crashes any time, and Covid would have me and my son not see them for months and months before it. And the virus will still be here regardless.
Valar morghulis.

@ArcheryAnnie

The callousness from some people on this thread is astounding. The "I'm all right Jack" attitude by people who don't seem to grasp that it's THEM and people like them, ignoring the rules, which will make this ghastly situation go on way, way longer than it needed to.

The only thing that makes this ghastly situation go on longer than it needed to is the ridiculous over-reaction to a virus.

I am poleaxed by the way in which people have switched their brains off and have subscribed to the propaganda about Covid.

Too many people are being hit with delayed cancer diagnosis and or treatment, too many people dying of other conditions because they're either scared to get help or the local NHS is not functioning for anything but Covid.

How can people say this? High rates of covid infection will cause other services to shut down. Isn't it terribly obvious that this is the case? Or is it that you would like the inevitably high numbers of people getting covid (in a world where people 'get on with their lives') aren't actually treated.

It's a virus, a serious virus but one that most people, even vulnerable ones, recover from.

We don't have a great deal of data on that yet. The long-term effects are looking horrific for some (front of the Times today (not the DM) - Covid may cause the brain to age 10 years. That's a big story for a national paper to run with and there will be some reputable evidence.

There is no way back whilst people are still so scared and I'm not sure how we get past that.

You seem to have a lot of information about how it's fine to get covid and not much about the many vaccines, some of which will probably be released soon. It's not a guarantee but I don't know any scientists who would call it unlikely at this point. So why erase this from the narrative? Because it would lend weight to the idea of waiting it out?

@TheSunIsStillShining

I’m a rule follower but fucking hell I can’t believe you said this:

So I'd really like people to grow up and stop whining

You clearly have no idea of the hardship being caused to people by these restrictions. People have actually killed themselves. Others are really struggling. I have PND and the support I was able to have from my mum over the summer was a Godsend (I now can’t because I’m tier 2). Telling people who are finding it hard to “grow up and stop whining” is incredibly glib.

I guess it's okay if people lose their livelihoods/education/prospects so long as ArcheryAnnie feels safe. Fucking fantastic.

Er - I've already had it. I might still be able to catch it again, I might not. Nevertheless, the damage has already been done.

And it is damage. I have gone from being economically active to not knowing if I will ever be able to work at the same level again. There are goodness knows how many thousands like me. Many of the people in my position are exactly the demographic - women in their fifties - that society depends on to be unpaid carers to both the generation below and the generation above. All of us will need medical care and investigation for the forseeable future. We will have gone from being the carers - and the workers - to being the cared-for. What kind of effect will that have on the economy and the health of the nation?

And I don't want what happened to me to happen to anyone else. It's not a case of "feelings" in any case. It doesn't matter what my - or your "feelings" are - it's a case of risk. Actual, verifiable, quantifiable risk.

In short: you would change your mind if you were on month seven of being fairly seriously ill.

@ArcheryAnnie

The callousness from some people on this thread is astounding. The "I'm all right Jack" attitude by people who don't seem to grasp that it's THEM and people like them, ignoring the rules, which will make this ghastly situation go on way, way longer than it needed to.

@ArcheryAnnie

You're callous wanting restrictions to continue and more jobs to be lost, more children in poverty, more suicides, drug addictions, depression etc etc...

Yawn, six months on and everyday the same old same old posts on MN.

All the people deciding to take their chances haven't realised that they're not necessarily taking chances with their own life, but someone else's. For example, a kid at my son's school may have parents that feel the same way, so break lockdown and contract COVID, son is asymptomatic and transmits to my son, who has a cough and a fever but is generally ok. Ten days later I am dead.

So I'm glad you're willing to risk your life but my odds ain't so great and I would rather you didn't risk mine. Please. I want to see my children grow up.

How is it fairer to restrict the lives of EVERYBODY instead of just the vulnerable? Explain that one to me because it doesn't quite compute.

Please explain how the vulnerable can effectively be shielded in regions where the virus rates are high? No one has any practical plans for how this can be done in a way that really will shield these groups. Explain how it can be done and you might find people are more receptive to the idea.

Of course, OP. You won’t die of it, and your freedom, here and now, is sooooo much more important than others’ lives.

No, gjejgej - I want the lockdowns to be over every bit as much as you. But the lockdowns will go on forever because selfish people like you believe the rules don't apply to them, and so are prolonging this far beyond what is necessary.

It's people like you that have got us here. It's people like you who are leading to all the problems caused by longer and longer lockdowns.

@Halliehallie9828 can you not read? I said I’m not staying in, I am however being very careful and I’m certainly no fool. I’m considerate of others.
You sound like a spoilt, entitled petulant child. Let’s hope you ‘living your best life’ doesn’t leave you unwell and housebound for a couple of months with long Covid because after all life is for living right. Actually if you do catch it let’s hope you don’t pass it on to someone vulnerable who has been careful since March. That would be truly tragic.

In short: you would change your mind if you were on month seven of being fairly seriously ill

I’m very sorry you’re ill, it sounds horrific and I agree long covid is going to have real implications for some on an individual level and for us all on a population level. I hope you feel better soon.

As to the point I’ve quoted, I think it could be said in response that if you hadn’t had covid but were about to lose your job and be unable to to feed your kids due to lockdown restrictions you might change your mind. Basically I think there’s a fundamental conflict of interest between the healthy who are worried about their economic position (which is totally reasonable) and those who are vulnerable/suffering from effects of covid who are more focussed on the covid suppression measures, which is also totally reasonable.

People’s approaches are going to be informed by their own circumstances I think.

@ArcheryAnnie

I guess it's okay if people lose their livelihoods/education/prospects so long as ArcheryAnnie feels safe. Fucking fantastic.

Er - I've already had it. I might still be able to catch it again, I might not. Nevertheless, the damage has already been done.

And it is damage. I have gone from being economically active to not knowing if I will ever be able to work at the same level again. There are goodness knows how many thousands like me. Many of the people in my position are exactly the demographic - women in their fifties - that society depends on to be unpaid carers to both the generation below and the generation above. All of us will need medical care and investigation for the forseeable future. We will have gone from being the carers - and the workers - to being the cared-for. What kind of effect will that have on the economy and the health of the nation?

And I don't want what happened to me to happen to anyone else. It's not a case of "feelings" in any case. It doesn't matter what my - or your "feelings" are - it's a case of risk. Actual, verifiable, quantifiable risk.

In short: you would change your mind if you were on month seven of being fairly seriously ill.

You do know that not everyone catches covid and it’s goes on for so say seven months...

Where's the science? Where's the proof that any of this is working (it clearly isn't) but we flow.it anyway

The proof is in the lockdown which brought the virus levels down.

Even in Tier 3 we can still do plenty of things. Its not the lockdown we had before

I'm in a tier 1 area. I haven't seen my parents since the summer, because I have school-aged kids and I don't want to risk infecting them with anything. We've gone into self-imposed isolation this week so we can visit them briefly on Sunday, before the kids go back. I am not smug, and I appreciate how awful it is for people in Tier 3 areas. Personally, I am not very scared of the virus but am concerned for the NHS, their staff and anyone who gets ill and needs treatment, for any illness, if hospitals are overwhelmed. What happened in March can't be allowed to happen again.
And completely agree that if we had our 'world beating' track and trace, and a government who set examples and had a policy beyond political one-upmanship, we wouldn't be in this shithole mess.

"I am poleaxed by the way in which people have switched their brains off and have subscribed to the propaganda about Covid".

I think people who work on covid wards or outbreaks at workplaces like food processing plants schools etc would not call it propaganda. Where I work one third of the staff have tested positive in around 2 weeks. A colleague came back too early. Mid 30's dad of 3. Could not walk up the stairs so got sent home.

It's all very well saying we should take our chances but lots of people don't have a choice and the more people decide to voluntarily take chances the worse the restrictions are likely to get.

After all loads of 20 year old took their chances in the summer and why not since their chances are excellent but we all know what happened next.

[quote Rainbowllama4]@Halliehallie9828 can you not read? I said I’m not staying in, I am however being very careful and I’m certainly no fool. I’m considerate of others.
You sound like a spoilt, entitled petulant child. Let’s hope you ‘living your best life’ doesn’t leave you unwell and housebound for a couple of months with long Covid because after all life is for living right. Actually if you do catch it let’s hope you don’t pass it on to someone vulnerable who has been careful since March. That would be truly tragic.[/quote]
Good for you. You sound like a goodie two shoes but I honestly don’t care.

To the PP who queried my post re family from abroad - my parents are perfectly allowed to come and visit me here. They just have to stay with us and quarantine in our house. But they are with us, at home. We (the rest of the family) are not required to quarantine. It's not complete freedom but at least we can see each other! It is certainly within the rules since they have to give my details etc on their 'quarantine certificate'.

@FractionalGains

In short: you would change your mind if you were on month seven of being fairly seriously ill

I’m very sorry you’re ill, it sounds horrific and I agree long covid is going to have real implications for some on an individual level and for us all on a population level. I hope you feel better soon.

As to the point I’ve quoted, I think it could be said in response that if you hadn’t had covid but were about to lose your job and be unable to to feed your kids due to lockdown restrictions you might change your mind. Basically I think there’s a fundamental conflict of interest between the healthy who are worried about their economic position (which is totally reasonable) and those who are vulnerable/suffering from effects of covid who are more focussed on the covid suppression measures, which is also totally reasonable.

People’s approaches are going to be informed by their own circumstances I think.

Thank you for this. I partially agree - but I have to say, i'm pretty bloody worried about my own economic future. How do i keep my job when I have been ill for so long? How do I find work in the future when my capacity is so reduced, and so unreliable? A future on meagre sickness benefits is not an appealing one, nor one I would wish on anyone else, either.

Also - my brother's flights (south of France to North of England and back) cost like 30quids!

As others have said it’s about everyone else.

Hospitals and ITUs are also filing up fast, the NHS has been grossly underfunded for years, there were not enough staff working even before and now with lots of people self-isolating etc there are every fewer. If you are unfortunate enough to get really unwell I assume you would like to be treated? Because there’s a very real chance that there won’t be enough staff to make that happen if the virus is allowed to run rampant (yes I know we have the nightingales but they’re no good without staff)

I voted YABU as you know you're being overly simplistic although I do have great sympathy. My odds with the virus are pretty good, but the odds of those I'd actually want to spend close time with (parents, parents in law) are not so good. Similarly, the odds of the person who touches the freezer door in the supermarket after me might not be so good. So it's best I do what I can to avoid catching it in the first place, even if it makes for a pretty shit 12 months or whatever we're looking at.

@08689326gno

How is it fairer to restrict the lives of EVERYBODY instead of just the vulnerable? Explain that one to me because it doesn't quite compute.

Please explain how the vulnerable can effectively be shielded in regions where the virus rates are high? No one has any practical plans for how this can be done in a way that really will shield these groups. Explain how it can be done and you might find people are more receptive to the idea.

@08689326gno

So you think it's beyond the will of mankind to put protective measures in place for at-risk groups (care home residents, elderly, etc.)? I can't believe that's actually your argument .

We put men on the moon for God's sake...

Here's one for you: nobody goes into a care home without having tested negative for COVID within the past couple of days. Care home workers have weekly/daily tests if needed to ensure safety. There we go...that took me all of 5 seconds to come up with. I'm sure the combined might of our glorious government would, given a few weeks, do even better than I!

When I read the level of batshittery on this (and other) Covid thread(s), I am mightily relieved that MN is of no consequence at all, other than to the odd people who post on it.

I hope everyone realises they are typing into thin air.