AIBU to think I'd rather take my chances with the virus...

[User3billion]

...than give up any more freedom?!

I'm in a tier 3 area and I'm so done. I'm sick of people in tier 1 areas preaching on social media about what we should and shouldn't be doing (especially given it can vary from one tier 3 area to the next). I'm sick of feeling like a prisoner in my own home. I'm sick of not being able to trust a single thing our government says.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with. And what's worse is that people are happy to go along with this! It's all kinds of wrong.

We deride other countries that deprive their citizens of their civil liberties and yet here we are.

There's likely to be a vaccine ready to roll out to vulnerable groups in early 2021. It's unlikely to be 100% effective but still a massive step in the right direction.

Therefore it makes sense to me to really try and minimise spread of it (especially to vulnerable family members etc) until then.

I agree with this. There’s a smugness that’s particularly irritating in people who happen to live in Tier 1 areas, who probably didn’t follow the rules any better than you did for the most part over the summer. The whole idea of blaming people who are in tier three areas is very divisive and I think has been deliberately encouraged by the government.

I’m not at all convinced by the idea of blaming people either. It seems to me that most of the Tier 3 outbreaks are in densely populated areas that weren’t that badly affected in the spring. I live in an area (in the South East) that was very badly affected in spring but is now Tier 1. Different areas are on different curves.

@gjejgej

People panicked about the diseases you listed because they were VERY DANGEROUS. Covid is not...the mortality rate is comparable to the flu

NO it's not stop spouting complete & utter nonsense & do some reading! (Not the daily fail)

@Buddytheelf85 you’re right, there wasn’t a lockdown in 1968, my Dad talks about it. And the schools stayed open.

But Covid is not the biggest risk is it! The biggest risk is suicide, undetected cancers, poverty, people dying untreated in their homes etc etc. We have to put this in its place. Everything, just everything is being sacrificed. It just makes no sense at all.

I’ve just seen the images of the bodies in Russia, how undignified for them and their family. Absolutely horrific.
Nobody is happy op, nobody is relishing it, I’m living by the rules because I don’t want to see images of bodies piled up like they were rubbish waiting for the bin men coming out of UK hospitals. This could happen if we had no restrictions.
You may be young and healthy op but god forbid you were in a RTA, your child needing ICU care except there isn’t a bed because we let the virus run rampant and hospitals are filed up with covid . patients. Should we just shut them all in a ward without care to die? The virus could affect us all if it isn’t controlled. It needs to be controlled so we can continue with cancer care, mental health support, maternity support during labour.
I don’t understand why some people can’t see the bigger picture. We need to keep a lid on it until we either have a vaccine or better treatments.
People still using the Cummings excuse to flout the rules are idiots, it’s simply an excuse to behave as selfishly as he did.

Ok @Buddytheelf85
Let's be like 1968.
Widespread smoking (so less very elderly).

Drink driving was more common in those days. No seat belts either.

Racism. Rife. Legally supported too. Look up the renting ads that barred black and Irish tenants.

Womens rights. Have a good hunt. It will take you some time. Very few.

Marital rape. Legal. Sacked for getting pregnant. Legal. Maternity leave. What's that?

Husband runs off with the secretary and leaves you and the kids penniless and homeless? Say goodbye to the children because they're going into care.

@gjejgej yes you are correct the numbers do matter. The Hong Kong flu killed 1 million people so less than covid.

@SheepandCow

Eh? That wasn’t my point. If you go back and read my post again you’ll see I was responding to a poster who asserted that Covid was the first pandemic since the Spanish flu and that we had lockdowns in response to previous pandemics. And that just isn’t historically accurate.

I know of a 19 year old with no underlying conditions on a ventilator.

The problem is, it isn't just 'your' chances that you're taking. So, supposing you get covid. What then? Not everyone can just isolate for 10 days and then it's all over. Suppose you only get symptoms after 5 days, but before that you've been spreading it everywhere you go.

Your elderly parents, that lady in the shop in the wheelchair, your friend's daughter who has an immune disorder .. YOU might sit at home and just get over it, but that's not to say that the people who you pass it to will. And even if THEY do, what about the people THEY pass it on to? You have to see what I mean.

Then, supposing some of those require hospital treatment. You're taking up a bed, putting the health of the doctors and nurses who treat you at risk.

You're probably thinking you wouldn't make much difference, and perhaps that's true. The issue is, what if everyone takes that same attitude? What if your selfishness in thinking you're above the rules means that not only you get it, but also 20 other people? What if you go to visit your mum, you pass it on to her, and she dies?

NOBODY is enjoying this.

I have to sit at home alone most of the time. Don't qualify for a bubble as I live with my DP, but he's a keyworker working a ton of hours. DSS spends all day in his room, only coming out to fight with me/us about why he's still not done any college work. My mum, dad and brother on the other hand are bubbled together, basically getting on with things as they normally would. They're happily normal, I sit here alone.

It's shit for everyone.

We either all get on with it, or none of us do, but individuals just deciding to fuck it is never going to work .. and to be honest, if we ALL thought fuck it, I'd have severe concerns for the NHS.

@loulouljh

But Covid is not the biggest risk is it! The biggest risk is suicide, undetected cancers, poverty, people dying untreated in their homes etc etc. We have to put this in its place. Everything, just everything is being sacrificed. It just makes no sense at all.

Yes. Failing to take effective containment measures is indeed sacrificing everything.

Meanwhile the countries who did do something about it can focus on all the other issues.

We can't. There's no cancer or mental health treatment when the hospitals are full and staff off sick (Covid, Long Covid, or PTSD).

Uncontained Covid is economically devastating too.

We know that the countries who've taken effective containment measures all now have healthier economies.

@ArcheryAnnie

People can choose to isolate if they wish, but the rest of us have lives to lead and futures to build.

You seem to think it's "only" old people or vulnerable people who get very sick and die. (And any public policy that doesn't take into account the needs of older and/or vulnerable people is a really rotten society in any case.) But plenty of younger people are vulnerable too. And it's not just a case of "get better or die" - it's now likely that women in their fifties are the demographic most vulnerable to getting Long Covid, but it's a risk for everyone That's thousands and thousands of people with long-term illnesses, needing medical care, becoming economically inactive. And since women in their fifties are often looking after both children and older parents, that's a caring time bomb waiting to happen.

@ArcheryAnnie

What about the needs of the people who AREN'T vulnerable? You know...the vast majority of us?

@DominaShantotto your reply made me chuckle, thank you! I'm struggling hugely at the minute so appreciate the little lift.

I’m sick of it all. I think everyone is. The thought of a long dark winter in Tier 3 ( and probably soon to be Tier 4 ) is just horrible. Ugh feels so depressing.

But I’ll comply as it’s about protecting everyone. Yes, Boris is a supersonic knob, but what can we do? Just have to get on with it, and Thank God Marcus Rashford is being such a thorn in his side🙏

@loulouljh

But Covid is not the biggest risk is it! The biggest risk is suicide, undetected cancers, poverty, people dying untreated in their homes etc etc. We have to put this in its place. Everything, just everything is being sacrificed. It just makes no sense at all.

If the virus is just allowed to run through the population, what effect do you think that will have? Have you thought about the consequences of millions of people ring sick at the same time?

This is a pandemic. It’s shit. The government are incompetent charlatans.

*being

@Idontbelieveit12

I know of a 19 year old with no underlying conditions on a ventilator.

I'm sorry. I hope they make a good recovery.

@Buddytheelf85
Apologies. I should've read your post properly.

FROM WHO:

“Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care. “

In addition loads of vulnerable people are vaccinated against flu so they don’t get it. That isn’t the case with COVID. Until we have a vaccine there will be this back and forth trying to balance hospital admissions!/deaths against the economy/mental health etc.

I get you are fed up op. Even those of us who didn’t mind the initial lockdown are fed up now. However this isn’t about just you.

I don’t think the restrictions go far enough. If people don’t follow the rules there will be a need to increase restrictions as cases will continue to rise. Mixing has been made illegal (in some areas) because of the people who think this isn’t real,or think it is ‘just like flu’ and who cannot see the bigger picture and reduce contact based on the information and guidance out there. Just because we weren’t stacking bodies in the street the first time around (largely due to the lockdown) doesn’t mean this could not get really out of hand if left unchecked.

What about the needs of the people who AREN'T vulnerable? You know...the vast majority of us?

gjejgej I think you are sadly uninformed about the reality of this disease. Everybody is vulnerable to it - it's just that some are more vulnerable than others. I know of a 29 year old who died, and a man in his 30s. Neither were particularly ill before they succumbed. And "women in their fifties" is hardly a specialised or unusual group - that's eventually a risk for 50% of the population, if we are lucky to reach our fifties.

And are you really so isolated that you don't know anyone especially vulnerable? You have no older neighbours or friends or family? Or you do have them and simply don't give a shit about them?

@Scarlettpixie

FROM WHO:

“Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care. “

In addition loads of vulnerable people are vaccinated against flu so they don’t get it. That isn’t the case with COVID. Until we have a vaccine there will be this back and forth trying to balance hospital admissions!/deaths against the economy/mental health etc.

I get you are fed up op. Even those of us who didn’t mind the initial lockdown are fed up now. However this isn’t about just you.

I don’t think the restrictions go far enough. If people don’t follow the rules there will be a need to increase restrictions as cases will continue to rise. Mixing has been made illegal (in some areas) because of the people who think this isn’t real,or think it is ‘just like flu’ and who cannot see the bigger picture and reduce contact based on the information and guidance out there. Just because we weren’t stacking bodies in the street the first time around (largely due to the lockdown) doesn’t mean this could not get really out of hand if left unchecked.

@Scarlettpixie

Did you even read the paragraph you quoted?

CRUDE MORTALITY is number of deaths/number of cases. That's a pretty useless statistic as the true number of "cases" is likely to be far, far higher than the number of verified positive tests. Imagine how many asymptomatic/mild cases of Covid have gone undiagnosed. Do you really think the average person has a 3-4% of dying if they catch COVID?

Dumb dumb.

It IS being mishandled with people's mates getting very rich off the back of it
This. Profiteering from a pandemic. The (lack of) morals some people have!

And it's all nicely distracted from with the division.

Different rules for every area, tier this, tier that, contrary can't see your family at home but can mix with thousands indoors at an airport (did people see the footage of crowds of Brits at a Greek airport?).

@gjejgej I’m afraid I don’t get my news from the daily mail like you clearly do.

If you would like to take a look at the CDC you will see the death toll was 1 million not the made up number of 4 million you gave.

Also covid is nothing like the flu.

Perhaps instead of saying others who present you with facts are dense and with a low IQ your time would be better spent trying to educate yourself.

Best of luck with it.

@gjejgej here is a link to help you get started.

www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html