To think a smart phone is an essential?

[picklecustard]

So every time I see the debate about free lunches for poor families on Facebook and social media, there are always people who comment about the same families being able to afford ‘non-essential luxuries’ sometimes it’s Sky Tv sometimes cigarettes and booze, but one example that consistently gets mentioned is having an i-phone/smart phone/phone contract.

Quite baffled that in this day and age people consider possessing a smart phone as a non-essential luxury. I know few people with a landline nowadays and a mobile is the point of contact for most. It’s also far more useful in the case of an emergency as you always have it with you. Access to the internet via a phone is also a necessity to most- when I needed a job most vacancies were advertised online and needed to be applied for online, I don’t drive so do my food shopping online (as well as finding recipes online), doctors appointments are booked much more easily online for my local surgery, my bills and banking are managed via apps and online, my children’s school only send letters via ParentMail app or email so all news/forms/payments and everything relevant to their schooling requires my iphone. And that’s just a few examples. My phone is genuinely an essential for everyday living and I’m surprised people don’t see it that way!

I've stopped the BB and just have really good sim only deals and tether other devices because it's worked out cheaper once your landline cost is added.

No one NEEDS the latest I phone, or an expensive monthly tariff.

No, no they don't. But then the OP didn't ask that, nor have posts I've seen said it, but people have just assumed that's what poor people go for.
The OP (and indeed the thread title) asks why a smart phone/iPhone/contract is not essential when aspects of day to day life can only be done online.

People have responded saying that internet access and a device is essential, but that a smart phone is not. Conveniently forgetting that it may be some people's only way to access the internet at all.
So from that someone poor should go and buy themselves a tablet/laptop/pc, get themselves into a monthly contract on broadband and landline and associated call costs (because that's really different to a monthly mobile phone contract!!) And then use those rather than buy one device which you can get for around £60 that does them all, and one monthly payment, be that PAYG (which is more expensive) or a contract.
Just so they don't have something that (for some people who have alternative means to access the internet, so a smart phone is probably a luxury they can do without) is perceived by other as a luxury, yet saying they need support/fsm.

A smart phone/iPhone is a luxury - when you're lucky enough to have other means of accessing the internet. When it's your only means it's a necessity for many who cannot access services etc anywhere else but online.

@ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble who put sandpaper on your toilet seat...

@m0therofdragons

In our friendship group I’ve observed that the friends who have a house mortgage free worth £800k with good incomes have old iPhones 6s, dh and I are comfortable with above average salaries and good sized house and have an iPhone 7 and I’ve just got an 11 as a treat following my bonus (I don’t have an iPad or laptop other than work provided and use phone for all banking etc). My friends who live in a council house have iPhone 11s each and are on the waiting list to upgrade to 12s. Their dc both have their own iPads and they have MacBooks.

The poorer friends seem to feel the need to never “deprive their dc” whereas mine only got their own tech due to covid and homeschooling - cheap chrome books.

I wonder if anecdotally there is an insecurity that leads to this but overall it does fit a stereotype and that’s why people can get cross.

Many people on benefits long term (and of course there are exceptions) are those who have limited qualifications yet we expect them to all be great at budgeting and making what we would say are “good decisions”; perhaps this is an unrealistic expect that sets people up to fail.

@m0therofdragons

My experience is the same as yours.

I’ve always wondered how people who I know are short of money can afford to buy so much tech for their kids and themselves. Latest Iphone, Mac books, x box, switch....

The people I know who could easily afford all of the above don’t buy it.

Perhaps you’re right.

[quote Clandestiney]@WinnieMac but you have the choice to buy one, that is the difference. You are acting all smug as you have a basic phone and cannot fathom why anyone would need/want a smartphone; even leaving the fact you have several other devices to access the internet or do whatever, it's still a choice, you don't have an old one even though it makes your life harder or where it would be your only access to online.[/quote]
You what? Not smug in the slightest. I just don't believe they're essential. How do you think people managed before smartphones? Who needs to be on the internet all the time? And if people have jobs which mean they need to be on the internet, then they can presumably buy a cheapish smartphone, should they choose to.

My £6 per month contract came with a smartphone . I didn't want it, so I gave it to one of my children to exchange for something at the Game shop.

How do you think people managed before smartphones? Who needs to be on the internet all the time? And if people have jobs which mean they need to be on the internet, then they can presumably buy a cheapish smartphone, should they choose to.

The only people who think the poor only buy expensive phones are the ones in a superior position to own a laptop, a tablet, a landline, broadband connect and their mobile phone on top. The reality is most people who can’t afford their bills can’t get contracts for expensive phones and won’t have the money upfront to buy outright.

As for ‘getting on before smartphones’... well you may (or may not) have noticed that over the years life has become a lot more internet heavy over the years. It’s been mentioned, several times, that essential services such as UC are online. There is no other way to access them. The cost of a cheap smartphone is always cheaper than a refurbed laptop AND broadband.

You may as well suggest poor people shouldn’t have washing machines either as ‘how did people get on before they existed’.

@NetflixWatcher

Shes nearly 90 sorry people I didn't read the whole thread I was literally just saying theres really cheap phones out there.

It's ok. You are right as well that there are phones,especially basic phones that are quite cheap. The issues starts when you need(and it is a need when some things are only accessible by internet)more than a basic phone,can't afford many devices so you end up getting a smartphone. Then people judge you because no one needs a smartphone and how wasteful you are, while happily typing on tablets,laptops ,pcs (sometimes all of them) AND have a phone.

That's just a silly analogy, Grapevine.

I would agree, though, that 'having a way to access the internet' is probably essential for most people in this country. But I still don't think that a smartphone is the only solution to that.

How do you think people managed before smartphones?

They managed because the world wasn't geared up to smart phones, because they weren't invented. A lot of services are now online, as I mentioned with an app earlier for DDs homework. Could only be done online.
You could apply that logic to anything relatively modern, why should people have electric? How do we think people managed before electric? It's not a necessity....... But since it became widely available times moved on and now it's pretty impossible to live without it in our modern society because everything from keeping food fresh to laundry relies on electric.

@GrapevineFires

Or electricity. Or heating. And the NHS, I mean people survived without that too. And cars/buses trains. Maybe we should expect poor people to live a medieval style life. After all people "managed" it then

Honestly. It's so easy to sit there on one of your many devices claiming you don't need a smart phone. But if you can only afford one, then a smart phone is often the most sensible.

I don't understand the big tv thing tbh and low incomes shouldn't have them.

Eh?? What "should" they have then? you don't know how they came by that big TV. Might have been a gift for all you know. They could even have saved for it. What's it matter?

Why are people so dead set against poor people having a smartphone but will give their (unwanted) blessing about a laptop? Why can’t they have a smartphone instead of the laptop?

WinnieMac

But smartphones are the cheapest solution to that - hence why essential. What are the other choices - a landline, a broadband connection and then a device on top?

Refurbed laptops are NOT (despite the claim) cheaper than second hand or cheap smartphones. Broadband contracts are generally more expensive than cheap data packages for phones - and if you can’t get credit, you’ll need to PAYG. How do you manage that with broadband? If the year was 2007 of course I’d agree it’s a ‘luxury’ item, but now it’s one item that pulls everything into one package and being able to access the internet is essential. There’s no way around it.

And I don’t think it’s a silly analogy as I can bet a similar argument to other ‘essential’ electrical devices have been made over the years. It’s just a new year, new way to demonise the poor.

How do you think people managed before smartphones? Who needs to be on the internet all the time?

Our local bank branch has shut so we have to travel to the nearest town (petrol money,or bus or tube). Or we can just use the app.

DD's school food can only be viewed and ordered online.

They also stopped doing uniform forms,instead it's a website.

Breakfast club needs to be booked and paid in advance,on an app.

A lot of her work during lockdown , was either on apps or emailed.

Some schools do reading records online,rather than physical ones.

Important messages and reminders go on the app and sometimes email. Newsletter is email.

Parents evening was on a zoom call type thingy, we got a link and had to register and what not.

Clothes,appliances,toys etc can be found really cheaply on fb groups or ebay. Someone bought her DGD's (she's guardian,long story) for the whole year from me for £15. Just a cardigan is £8.95 new.

Food delivery,which sometimes can end up being cheaper once you factor in transport costs or the ability to bulk buy because you don't have to carry it all.

Dentists/GP's will do phone consultation or ask for a video call atm,if they need to see something,but not necessary for you to go in person.

Work emails,forms etc.

Apply for benefits,jobs,fill in your journal.

A lot of companies and even councils have been unavailable on the phone since march but they have an inline contact form or even live chat or messenger chat.

Look for bus /train timetables and routes.

Price comparison websites or hunting for the best deal.

Just a few things off the top of my head,many of which will offset the cost of a smartphone either in actual money or time/wellbeing.

Then there's the leisure part.
Most places you might want to visit are booked online now, even the free ones.
My family lives in another country so I use WhatsApp to keep in touch a lot.
Books are on the kindle app.
Games, news, socialising and Mumsnet(which a lot of people are using for advice and as a lifeline) .

@funinthesun19

Why are people so dead set against poor people having a smartphone but will give their (unwanted) blessing about a laptop? Why can’t they have a smartphone instead of the laptop?

Because apparently, when you say the words 'poor' and 'smartphone' in the same sentence, it actually magically translates to "poor people spunking a grand on a top of the range iPhone and £50 a month contract" Who knew the English language was so clever 😆

@WinnieMac

That's just a silly analogy, Grapevine.

I would agree, though, that 'having a way to access the internet' is probably essential for most people in this country. But I still don't think that a smartphone is the only solution to that.

Even if it's convenience alongside necessity, I don't begrudge someone who is struggling anything that makes their life that tiny bit easier or more accessible.

Look for bus /train timetables and routes.

I'll add to this that our bus tickets are actually cheaper on the app. Only 10-20p per ticket, but that adds up over the month. Plus our buses don't give change, so instead of having to scrabble around for random amounts of coins I can buy what we need on my phone and not waste the extra 10/20p because I didn't have the right change.

• Because apparently, when you say the words 'poor' and 'smartphone' in the same sentence, it actually magically translates to "poor people spunking a grand on a top of the range iPhone and £50 a month contract" Who knew the English language was so clever *

Somehow the laptop is never top of the range,or a Macbook , or expensive, or latest.

@funinthesun19

Why are people so dead set against poor people having a smartphone but will give their (unwanted) blessing about a laptop? Why can’t they have a smartphone instead of the laptop?

the point is about essentials

and you'd think that if you are struggling you'd go for the cheapest option 🤷

When posters started writing that playing candy crush or their kids couldn't read books without an iphone so it's all necessities, you have to laugh.

and you'd think that if you are struggling you'd go for the cheapest option

And often a smartphone is the cheapest option, instead of broadband and landline and another device and a phone however cheap it is.

Why is that so hard to understand?

All the things you have,others manage on just a smartphone of £20 a month or whatever.

Every so often something comes along that is a toy for the rich but a game changer for the poor.

For instance satellite internet and solar power which means really remote off grid places in the world suddenly have connectivity without having to lay in power cables over mountain ranges.

In the same way after years of clunking around the internet with different computers, modems, etc and going to libraries etc to check emails, a smartphone gives you all that in a pocket size device, one payment, with user friendly apps. They have made the internet accessible to people and consequently a whole load of systems (including benefits and job applications) have started moving over to apps and mobile/cloud based technology.

Like it or not, improving digital access is a UN and government target. Its very snipy to say the most vulnerable in society should be left out when they have most to lose.

the point is about essentials

and you'd think that if you are struggling you'd go for the cheapest option 🤷

So why is a laptop, broadband and a landline phone essential but a device that does all 3 of those, cheaper, not?
You can absolutely find a smartphone cheaper than a laptop, and it also connects to the internet itself without the need for broadband and that expense, so £60 for a smartphone and a £10 a month top up is a financially worse idea than £100 for a laptop, £18 (based on what I pay) a month broadband, and extra on top for the landline calls as your laptop doesn't make calls.

When posters started writing that playing candy crush or their kids couldn't read books without an iphone so it's all necessities, you have to laugh.

I agree there that things like playing candy crush aren't essential, but you'll be delighted to know that my shit smartphone doesn't have the capacity for apps like that because it is full of other apps for my internet banking and topping up the utilities. The NHS t&t app sent it into meltdown. If I needed another app for say work in the future, I'd have to have a better phone, because this one just won't support any more.

and you'd think that if you are struggling you'd go for the cheapest option 🤷

The laptop might be cheaper I don’t know, but it’s not as convenient is it?. Are poor people not allowed some convenience?
What if someone needs to access their online banking while they’re not at home? Suddenly the laptop is useless isn’t it? Unless they carry around with them everywhere and connect up to WiFi somewhere.... but why should they have to do that?? It takes seconds to log on to an app on your phone, and you don’t have the weight of a laptop weighing you down. Unless poor people deserve to be uncomfortable? What if nowhere nearby has WiFi and they can’t sit down and set their laptop up? What if they don’t have time to faff about with a laptop when they’re out and about?

Smartphones are just easier. And poor people are allowed that just as much as anyone else.

Not convinced. I didn't get a smartphone until two years ago. Don't use it much. Still have a landline and use that for calls when I'm at home. Mobile is just really there for emergencies for me. I use my laptop for internet use.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have a smartphone. I think if your income is limited, you have to find a way to fulfil your needs as cheaply as possible.

Broadband isn't cheaper per se than a smartphone but it depends on your circumstances. If you already have a laptop or a pc or tablet or whatever, and your DC need the internet for schoolwork, having broadband at home may be cheaper than upgrading your phone contract for more data or to use as a hotspot etc. I can think of a few people who only have broadband at home, and a basic PAYG phone. It's what works for you.

I wouldn't judge someone on benefits or low income for having a smartphone per se, but I would if they'd just signed up to a £50 a month deal to get the latest iPhone or Samsung while struggling to afford a weekly shop or other basic necessities.

I'm amazed though by how much people pay for phone contracts generally, I was talking to some colleagues recently who pay £40+, which they thought was the norm.