To think that Mark Drakeford is a power mad dictator?

[LittleLapwing]

Half the shops covered in plastic. Can’t buy clothes, duvets, books, DVDs, tins but not tin openers.
All the Halloween and bonfire night stuff that’s just been stocked is behind a cordon. Presumably now destined for landfill.

Autumn half term after a shitty year and I can’t even do a few seasonal treats for the kids.

AIBU to think that Mark Drakeford is a power mad dictator, and that his ridiculous game of Covid oneupmanship with Nicola and Boris needs to stop!?

So I've seen someone on here argue that Wales can't be praised for going hard on COVID like New Zealand did - because we don't have a hard border so can't enforce it. Then plenty of outrage at Wales trying to enforce the rules on the border.

Mark Drakeford has not specified what supermarkets can or can't sell - the supermarkets themselves have decided that themselves. He specifically said today that stationery and greetings cards are fine - so all of those PP terribly anxious that Welsh kids will go without paper, or someone's mother might go without a Tesco's birthday card can rest easy.

Those arguing that the Great Easter Egg Ban of March disproves my point, are.. missing the point. Back then the government said essential items only (as Drakeford has done now), the shops and in some cases the police interpreted that as no easter eggs... in the same way that people are now interpreting it as no baby clothes. But it is exactly that, an interpretation.

A lot of the images we're seeing on social media of aisles being taped off are overblown. I saw halloween tat for sale in my local shop today (while I was there for my groceries).

Mark Drakeford has not specified what supermarkets can or can't sell - the supermarkets themselves have decided that themselves.

They HAD to decide it themselves BECAUSE he wouldn’t provide clarity. Just told them they couldn’t sell ‘non-essentials’ and threatened anyone who disobeyed with closure.

What exactly could they do?

@Mooseflake

So I've seen someone on here argue that Wales can't be praised for going hard on COVID like New Zealand did - because we don't have a hard border so can't enforce it. Then plenty of outrage at Wales trying to enforce the rules on the border.

Mark Drakeford has not specified what supermarkets can or can't sell - the supermarkets themselves have decided that themselves. He specifically said today that stationery and greetings cards are fine - so all of those PP terribly anxious that Welsh kids will go without paper, or someone's mother might go without a Tesco's birthday card can rest easy.

Those arguing that the Great Easter Egg Ban of March disproves my point, are.. missing the point. Back then the government said essential items only (as Drakeford has done now), the shops and in some cases the police interpreted that as no easter eggs... in the same way that people are now interpreting it as no baby clothes. But it is exactly that, an interpretation.

A lot of the images we're seeing on social media of aisles being taped off are overblown. I saw halloween tat for sale in my local shop today (while I was there for my groceries).

But the government DIDN'T say essential items only in March. They said only shops selling essential items.

Just because the supermarket by you closed off random aisles in March, others have said theirs didn't. Even the article YOU quoted said (again) "There is no government definition of which products can be sold within those (essential) stores."

Do you really think places like Tescos, etc. would do themselves out of a few quid from homeware or christmas jumpers, etc. if they could realistically avoid it? His "guidance" was incredibly last minute and completely unclear, as proved by your quote suggesting he's said "today" you can buy greetings cards. Well that's two days after lockdown has started, why couldn't he have provided that guidance to the shops on Friday, or even the day he announced the lockdown??? What now makes a birthday card more essential than a duvet?

I agree there probably are some shops still selling random stuff because nobody has a clue what is/isn't essential...that's not suggesting good governance!

www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1025/1173788-coronavirus-ireland/

The Irish government have brought the same rules in but for 6 weeks. We'll survive another 15 days!

So I've seen someone on here argue that Wales can't be praised for going hard on COVID like New Zealand did - because we don't have a hard border so can't enforce it. Then plenty of outrage at Wales trying to enforce the rules on the border.

The only way you can get in and out of New Zealand is by plane or boat, there is a lot of control over who gets in and out (criminal activity aside), it is one country and applies to all. The Welsh and English border is an historic, war fought, land grabbing back and forth wiggly line, someone has already pointed out that there is now different rules for each side of the road, can you not imagine how this could cause ill feeling?

And for this point I am not passing judgement on any nation, but the fact that all 4 nations (especially E, S, and W) have all had different rules has been a failure, how can they all do different yet all claim to be following the science? A united approach from day one would have been a lot better.

I'm guessing all the alcohol (enough to sink a ship), scratchcards and cigarettes sold in the shop I work in are deemed essential 🙄

We are however selling birthday cards, Halloween stuff, stationery, kitcheny bits and other stuff the bigger supermarkets aren't selling.

I was thinking it was to discourage people from having that shopping outing where it's mainly browsing.Cutting down the numbers of people out and about in shops?
Whole families.
I totally agree with that but one person from a household can surely pick up any stuff that is needed in the event of say a broken kettle, new duvet, clothing etc.

@LittleLapwing

Mark Drakeford has not specified what supermarkets can or can't sell - the supermarkets themselves have decided that themselves.

They HAD to decide it themselves BECAUSE he wouldn’t provide clarity. Just told them they couldn’t sell ‘non-essentials’ and threatened anyone who disobeyed with closure.

What exactly could they do?

Ah so he didn't tell the supermarkets what they could or couldn't sell... yet he's a "Power mad Dictator"

Ok.

And for this point I am not passing judgement on any nation, but the fact that all 4 nations (especially E, S, and W) have all had different rules has been a failure, how can they all do different yet all claim to be following the science? A united approach from day one would have been a lot better.

I completely agree with you.

Mark Drakeford said time and again that he wanted a united approach. He kept to his word throughout the first lockdown.

Then the UK government stopped following the advice of their own scientific advisors. So the Devolved administrations then faced a choice between keeping a united front, and following the science.

He tried and tried to keep that united front when the infection rates started to increase in areas close to the Welsh border. Wales had implemented local lockdowns with advice not to leave your county, whereas UK government refused to issue the same advice for their own high risk areas. So we had the absurd situation where people in neighbouring welsh counties couldn't travel between them, but people from english regions with significantly higher infection rates were able to travel freely into those same areas. Mark Drakeford wrote to Boris Johnson and urged him to issue a rule that people in what have become known as Tier 3 areas should not travel outside their area. Boris refused. Once again, MD was forced to choose between keeping a united front, or keeping the people of Wales safe by following the scientific advice.

Mark Drakeford is following the advice of SAGE who urged government to implement a short circuit breaker lockdown in September.

Back in March we were told essential travel only. Police turned a family member trying to get to his grieving sister on 3 separate occasions. We were later told by BJ that this was only guidance and we should have used our common sense just like Dominic Cummings.
I'm wondering how long it will be before the same is said of this farce in Wales.

@Mooseflake

And for this point I am not passing judgement on any nation, but the fact that all 4 nations (especially E, S, and W) have all had different rules has been a failure, how can they all do different yet all claim to be following the science? A united approach from day one would have been a lot better.

I completely agree with you.

Mark Drakeford said time and again that he wanted a united approach. He kept to his word throughout the first lockdown.

Then the UK government stopped following the advice of their own scientific advisors. So the Devolved administrations then faced a choice between keeping a united front, and following the science.

He tried and tried to keep that united front when the infection rates started to increase in areas close to the Welsh border. Wales had implemented local lockdowns with advice not to leave your county, whereas UK government refused to issue the same advice for their own high risk areas. So we had the absurd situation where people in neighbouring welsh counties couldn't travel between them, but people from english regions with significantly higher infection rates were able to travel freely into those same areas. Mark Drakeford wrote to Boris Johnson and urged him to issue a rule that people in what have become known as Tier 3 areas should not travel outside their area. Boris refused. Once again, MD was forced to choose between keeping a united front, or keeping the people of Wales safe by following the scientific advice.

Mark Drakeford is following the advice of SAGE who urged government to implement a short circuit breaker lockdown in September.

Drakeford's approach has been so keen on unity and on scientific advice that he didn't mandate mask-wearing on public transport until six weeks after England did. Then he waited seven weeks to mandate them in shops.

I had six weeks of dealing with inconsistent rules for my customers to follow (public transport crossing the border). If he had gone ahead and mandated them at the same time as England it would have been far simpler. He might even have saved a few lives into the bargain.

Totally crackers. And I can guarantee that it won't be for only 17 days. Give anyone a bit of power.....you know the rest.

Mark Drakeford said time and again that he wanted a united approach

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

He’s made a petty point of doing EVERYTHING he can just slightly different to England. It’s been laughable.
From the big stuff, right down to the petty details (calling it a ‘firebreak’ rather than circuit-breaker like the rest of the UK), everything he’s done has had to be just a bit different from England.

It’s been ridiculous.

It is bonkers. We are living in a police state not a democracy.

WalesUk is no longer a democracy.

So we have police patrolling the border on both sides. Army next I expect when they don't have enough manpower to block all the back routes.

First steps to a police state.

Can some posters here not see just how slippery a slope this this?

I can, and I agree Elphame.

To be honest, I think this whole situation is starting to take it’s toll on the man.

The stress and pressure of doing his job must be immense.

Not to mention that over the last 2 years he has been through the trial and imprisonment of his son; he has taken on the top job in the country, and now he’s been dealing with this pandemic every single day since early March.

The strain seems to be starting to show on him. He looks utterly drained, and now even previous fans of his are questioning his judgement and competence.

I’ll be surprised if he’s in role to see this pandemic out.

I don’t think I even have a small enough violin :(

Quick, cover all those pots and pans in supermarket, because as Welsh Labour we have sorted every single other problem facing the nation, so this is a top priority.
There’s a word for people like this....jobsworth. And an incompetent one at that.

Back then the government said essential items only

No, it didn't. It said you couldn't leave your home without reasonable excuse. A reasonable excuse included buying essential supplies.

Not the same thing at all as saying you can only buy essential items.

A reasonable excuse was going out to buy milk and bread. Nothing stopped me adding an Easter egg and/or a birthday card to my shopping basket or trolley.

@Elphame

So we have police patrolling the border on both sides. Army next I expect when they don't have enough manpower to block all the back routes.

First steps to a police state.

Can some posters here not see just how slippery a slope this this?

Totally agree. I'm appalled that police are patrolling the border and wonder how the heck they have the resources.

Well, he doesn't really have the background to suggest that he's suitable to be in charge of so many peoples'lives, does he *Yardleyx?. He's not what you would call a high achiever.

If I could debate with him, id be asking him if he thought the derogations in the ECHR supported such long term breaches of basic human rights and those specific restrictions, as it actually only supports short term restrictions of as minimal a nature only when the wellbeing of the entire population as a whole is at risk.

I thought he was a Corbyn placeman anyway?

None of this is very democratic. Why on earth should power be concentrated to such a degree in the hands of one man, and where is the separation of powers ensuring that the courts and the executive are separate from and just as important as the legislature so that these de visions can be adequately reviewed?

It is quite clear that clothing is an essential item, and I do wonder if Tesco and the other supermarkets are calling his bluff so as to illustrate just how ridiculous the rules are currently in Wales (they face the vague threat of "closure" for non compliance.

I've just read supermarkets are banning the sale of tampons. Surely not?

The Welsh govt have said Tesco has got it wrong and sanitary products are necessary items. Not really fair to blame the Govt when it is Tesco making a mad decision.

One supermarket in Wales idiotically roped off the cosmetic aisle without realising that it was also the toothpaste and sanitary items aisle .

Someone then tweeted Tesco saying “WTF why can’t I buy period products?”! The guy running the Tesco twitter feed who’d spent all day copying and pasting the same text of “don’t blame us blame the government they told us not to sell it” to everyone complaining about socks, kettles, birthday cards, pillows etc, accidentally posted the standard reply to sanpro complaint woman. Five minutes later somebody at Tesco actually read the tweet properly, deleted the original reply and replaced it with “Oh, no that’s definitely not right. Please tell us which shop it was and we’ll get it fixed immediately!”

But by then the damage was done and “Mark Drakeford/Tesco don’t think tampons are essential!”

ancientgran The Welsh govt have said Tesco has got it wrong and sanitary products are necessary items. Not really fair to blame the Govt when it is Tesco making a mad decision.

If the Welsh Government has the power to close businesses which do not comply with its rules, then it is the duty of the Welsh Government to legislate in a way which isn't so vague.

The Welsh Government are being exceptionally incompetent. What exactly is so difficult about producing a list of products which can and cannot be sold if they are going to use the threat of closure for businesses for selling "non-essentials"? Obviously, certain businesses are going to err on the side of caution.

As I said before, I think Tesco is actually doing rather well to call the Welsh Government's bluff on this to illustrate how ridiculously incompetent their attempts at rule making are.