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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if you live in a London Borough you live in London

306 replies

MariahLynn · 23/10/2020 16:57

Saw this on twitter and thought about it twitter.com/yougov/status/1319226163278057472?s=21

Why does this create such controversy?

Surely If you live in a London Borough you are part of London.

I can’t see how anyone can live somewhere which has red buses, can vote for London mayor, pays council tax to a London Borough and maintain they live in Essex or Kent or Surrey.

Is it about pretending to be posher?

OP posts:
whydobirds · 24/10/2020 11:55

@stanfordpines when I order stuff online there is often a box for 'county' which is a required field, in the address form. I put Kent in there when at home. When ordering stuff for work, I have to put London, leading to the slightly nonsensical address of 123 x street, London, London, postcode.

Yes, county is no longer required (removed from the Royal Mail database in 2000) but it used to be how post was initially sorted (my dad, with a student sorting job in the 60s thought Co. Durham was in NI so would allocate all Durham letters to the Ireland pile) and as such many people still include it, and online retailers often still require it in their address forms.

woodhill · 24/10/2020 11:56

I've been asked for my county in a survey just now - Middlesex

Teirsforfears · 24/10/2020 11:57

I don’t consider croydon London

DappledThings · 24/10/2020 12:53

I opened this thread just to see if you were here to tell people that they most certainly do not have a Middlesex postal address, @DappledThings**

Thought you'd be pleased to see me 😆

Ginfordinner · 24/10/2020 12:53

This is interesting.

When I was at school in the 1960s and 1970s all of our exercise books had GLEA (Greater London Education Authority) printed on them.

DappledThings · 24/10/2020 12:54

when I order stuff online there is often a box for 'county' which is a required field, in the address form
I know, it's really annoying. If it's free text I put N/a. If it's a drop-down I have to choose Kent but it annoys me. And I live in definitely proper Kent, bot Bromley.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2020 13:01

when I order stuff online there is often a box for 'county' which is a required field, in the address form

That doesn't make it right but (probably) a (badly) rejigged US one which tries to equate "state" with "county". Bearing in mind a lot of US sites didn't have a box, drop-down or not, for "country" ...

However, Middlesex does have it's fans. Certainly in the 80s we had astrologer extraordinaire Russell Grant (a Pinnerite) leading campaigns to continue using it for postage www.middlesexfederation.com/ .

And a lot of my textbooks at school still had "Middlesex County Council" stamps in them.

wheresmymojo · 24/10/2020 13:07

I'm not saying this is 'correct' but like a PP to me London is places with a London postcode.

Places that are boroughs of Greater London but that don't have a London postcode aren't London.

In the same way that there are plenty of places in Greater Manchester that I wouldn't call Manchester.

wheresmymojo · 24/10/2020 13:13

I find 'inside the M25' to be a weird way of defining London.

Is that just something people think when they live nowhere near London?

I can imagine I might have thought that when I lived in the North.

In reality though there are places inside the M25 that are a really long way from London both I distance and in type of place (e.g. Byfleet to central London is still 1.5 hours!)

DGRossetti · 24/10/2020 13:20

I find 'inside the M25' to be a weird way of defining London.

Why ? It's as natural a border as a river or mountain range really. You are either inside. Or not.

What I find odd is there are so many boroughs and counties that are bisected by it.

Cyllie33 · 24/10/2020 13:21

This doesn’t say they asked people in those boroughs.

It could be people responding from central London who want to snobbily ditch the outer boroughs!

woodhill · 24/10/2020 13:40

I'll happily be ditched😊

wheresmymojo · 24/10/2020 14:50

@DGRossetti

I find 'inside the M25' to be a weird way of defining London.

Why ? It's as natural a border as a river or mountain range really. You are either inside. Or not.

What I find odd is there are so many boroughs and counties that are bisected by it.

Because parts of 'inside the M25' are still an hour and a half away from London, aren't London boroughs or part of Greater London and have nothing in common with London other than being in the South.

wheresmymojo · 24/10/2020 14:54

Case in point - Byfleet.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byfleet

It's within the M25.

But...

  • It's a village
  • It's in Surrey, and not on the Surrey/London border. It's well within Surrey
  • It takes 1.5 hours to drive to London from Byfleet (not taking into account traffic)
  • It's not in a London Borough nor is it considered part of Greater London

Other than being 'inside the M25' calling Byfleet part of London is like calling a village in the Peak District part of Birmingham or Manchester

Fizbosshoes · 24/10/2020 15:02

I have lived in zone 5 suburbia (didnt feel I lived "in" London) and zone 2 (did feel that was London as it had a London postcode)

MRex · 24/10/2020 15:05

@throwaway100000 summed it up beautifully:
In my experience born and bred Londoners understand why, gentrifiers/outsiders don’t

Dual identity is normal when people immigrate from another country, it's not a difficult concept. Large numbers will say they're from Bromley in Kent, but if asked where that is will say East London, there's no harm either way. The difficulty isn't with accepting a link with Greater London, it's with being asked to give up a cultural element of one's life and to become a faceless "outer" place to the main event of London instead of retaining a sense of the local history of the actual place.

In many of these outer boroughs there is a sense of place; the names of the place and other counties appear on shops, sports clubs and old addresses, there are local museums and history groups, so the connection is gently built from childhood. If you grow up going to Brownies/ Girl Guides in Middlesex while supporting their cricket team (Chiswick, Wembley, Harrow, etc), or if your town pre-dates the 1086 Domesday book as a significant market town (Croydon, Sutton, Kingston upon Thames), if you have Surrey County Council's County Hall in the middle of your borough (Kingston upon Thames; also problematic because it's a Royal borough rather than a London borough), if your market town was chartered in 1158 in Kent (Bromley)... then that is what describes your home. There's no need to suggest people must sever any connection with a place, actually it's rather unkind to try.

Inner London areas either have their own strong local history (Brixton, Camden) or are part of the fabric of London as a whole (Victoria, Westminster, the City); it isn't surprising that they should feel Croydon isn't "real London", because they share the present, they don't share the history.

CecilyP · 24/10/2020 15:12

When I was at school in the 1960s and 1970s all of our exercise books had GLEA (Greater London Education Authority) printed on them.

Very odd because there has never been a Greater London Education Authority. London County Council education was replaced by the Inner London Education Authority in 1965 while all the outer London Boroughs became Education Authorities in their own right. While we had London County Council exercise books before that (full title, no abbreviation) I have never seen an Inner London Education Authority exercise book. Perhaps glea stood for something else!

CecilyP · 24/10/2020 15:18

Places that are boroughs of Greater London but that don't have a London postcode aren't London.

How do you cope with boroughs like Merton, parts of which have SW19 and SW20 postcodes while other parts have CR postcodes?

Ginfordinner · 24/10/2020 16:25

@CecilyP

When I was at school in the 1960s and 1970s all of our exercise books had GLEA (Greater London Education Authority) printed on them.

Very odd because there has never been a Greater London Education Authority. London County Council education was replaced by the Inner London Education Authority in 1965 while all the outer London Boroughs became Education Authorities in their own right. While we had London County Council exercise books before that (full title, no abbreviation) I have never seen an Inner London Education Authority exercise book. Perhaps glea stood for something else!

You are absolutely correct. My memory is playing tricks on me Grin
idril · 24/10/2020 17:03

Another one in London borough but I am a few metres away from the border with Essex (also not a London postcode). So difficult to know what to say when people ask where I live as I feel a fraud saying "London" so usually have this convoluted way of saying North East London but on the Essex border.

I also feel a fraud saying "Essex" as feels like it's not deep enough into Essex to count as that either...

Loveworm · 24/10/2020 17:08

I the the council you pay council tax to say London Borough of.......... or ............. London Borough then you live in London,

NorwoodMum2010 · 24/10/2020 17:20

When I moved to Croydon from Tooting I was surprised when people spoke about going "into town" they meant Croydon town centre and not the west end of London like I was used to.

However, as others have said, people who say Croydon isn't in London are generally just being snobby. It is very clearly the London Borough of Croydon. Some parts have a "London" postcode (SE25) and some have a "Croydon" postcode (CR0) but they are all most definitely London, and feel like London too (I say this as a someone who was born in Zone 1 and has lived in London Zones 1-3 my whole life).

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2020 17:34

If your address is in here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographers%27_A%E2%80%93Z_Street_Atlas
You are a Londoner.

If your address is in the large scale pages you live in
Central London

Doodar · 24/10/2020 17:49

@DadDadDad

Why can't London have fields and woods?
www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/green-spaces/hampstead-heath
TeachesOfPeaches · 24/10/2020 18:37

Harrow was Middx but we had the old London 0181 dialling area code (pre 0208).