Andy Burnham is just showboating now - AIBU?

[1u1a]

Ok, so he wanted £65 million. He was offered £60 million. But is refusing to take it. Then he sets up a press opportunity on the town hall steps, where he feigns shock at stooges showing him the news in their phones and tries to pretend he’s only been offered £22 million - even though he has known full well for hours what the deal is - £60 million- and had been discussing it all day.

I mean I was sympathetic with him at first, but now he is just looking daft. Why does he think “the people of Manchester” are any different to “the people of... “ anywhere else? He is tripping over his own ego and his city needs that £60 million.

He will go from hero to zero very fast if the death toll in Manchester spikes out of proportion compared to elsewhere because he was trying to have his moment. Believe me, I am no fan of this govt, but this is ridiculous now.

@sheepandcow I think you are mistaking many people in "the regions" constantly getting a shit deal from Westminster and particularly the Tory party for bashing poor people in London. I'm not sure why other than it is an attempt at whataboutery.

London enters tier 2 and the Chancellor announces new support measures, coincidence? Of course we all know he isn't doing it for the poor and deprived of London. They are just lucky they live in the same city as his chums.

@SheepandCow

Why are some people so keen to set regions against other regions?

As if the government is supporting the millions of in huge deprivation Londoners!

It's not just London in tier 2. Other regions went into it too. At the same time. They're getting a support package.
Just like tier 3 places are.

Whether it's enough for anywhere is another matter. Not in London that's for sure. Hence Sadiq Khan's attempts to fight for his city.

Why bash some of the most deprived people in the whole country because you think your area also needs more help? How does inciting unwarranted resentment and division help?

Errrr maybe because a week of restrictions v over ten weeks is relevant to whether you currently have a job or a business left?

If theres no back dating of support thats an issue.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-deaths-uk-housing-overcrowding-newham-london-a9646301.html%3famp

Consequences of the 'investment' in London.

I'm not disputing that the North needs more support - but I very much doubt they want the sort of 'investment' Londoners have suffered. Be careful what you wish for. Manchester in fact is a good example. The Northern Powerhouse status had already pre pandemic started to push housing costs up. People were beginning to get priced away from their families and support networks.

Any support should be the right kind. Something that genuinely benefits local residents and small businesses.

There should be the same help and support for everyone everywhere. Setting areas against each other doesn't help anyone (except those who make money out of divide and rule).

@Hopoindown31

I think some MPs from Norfolk had written to him and AB said something very similar to,”I don’t want southern MPs telling me what to do.”

Not what happened. The MPs wrote to Starmer and Burnham to ask them not to ask for a national lockdown as it would harm their areas. A totally self-serving letter. Burnham's response was that it "wouldn't cut any ice" with him or the people of Manchester. I agree with his assessment.

An MP really said that to Burnham?

Its like a magic invisibility cloak of forgetfulness.

Like Obi wan when he says 'these are not the droids you are looking for' instead its 'manchester has not been in restrictions since july'.

Tone deaf twat.

@SheepandCow the tell that to the government who brought in the potentially divisive local lockdowns without any clear formula for provision of support for the different tiers. Instead they prefer to have show negotiations where they don't let elected officials talk and instead issue ultimatums.

I am at a total loss why anyone would then try and blame local politicians for this mess and for trying to Stoke regional tensions.

@SheepandCow

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-deaths-uk-housing-overcrowding-newham-london-a9646301.html%3famp

Consequences of the 'investment' in London.

I'm not disputing that the North needs more support - but I very much doubt they want the sort of 'investment' Londoners have suffered. Be careful what you wish for. Manchester in fact is a good example. The Northern Powerhouse status had already pre pandemic started to push housing costs up. People were beginning to get priced away from their families and support networks.

Any support should be the right kind. Something that genuinely benefits local residents and small businesses.

There should be the same help and support for everyone everywhere. Setting areas against each other doesn't help anyone (except those who make money out of divide and rule).

Do you actually know anything about the north and why this is happening? Or do you just spout some stuff you've heard.

Cos jesus weep i think i know all about this subject pretty well without being lectured to about whats happening on my own patch! I've kind of lived through the middle of this.

Where do you live as a matter of interest? I'm fascinated and itching to learn.

maybe because it's a week of restrictions v over ten weeks
Leicester? What support did they get? They never came out of restrictions.

London's economy has been devastated by the pandemic. Places like Cornwell too.
Everywhere struggling should get help. Not reliant on deals.

Re London. I'm not talking about the big money economy. Big banks, etc. I mean the minimum wage leisure economy. Hundreds of thousands of very deprived people rely on that minimum wage work. The footfall is down in London more than anywhere else. Sadiq Khan isn't fighting for support for nothing. It's his city. He lives amongst the everyday people - and he knows how they're suffering.

Lots of places across the UK have been badly impacted by the pandemic whether restrictions, tier 1, 2, 3, or whatever level or not. They all need support. Why the issue with that?

Im going to say it again before i get another patronising google link.

Where are you from?

@Hopoindown31

Liverpool City Region, Lancashire and South Yorkshire are all around 1.5 million in population. Each region has received £40-45 million in support from the government.

Greater Manchester has close to 3 million people and receives £60 million at a push.

Burnham was absolutely spot on to be furious about this.

The fact the government claim that they couldn't give them more than the other regions whilst actually giving them less per capita and people actually believe them even though the evidence is right in front of them that they are lying is utterly shocking.

Plus the 22 Million already given = 82 Million.

The figures you're quoting for Lancs and Liverpool include the test and trace portion, which is what the 22 Million already given to GM is for.

When was the last time you were out and about in and around Manchester? And i dont just mean the city centre either.

The North is not one big samey place.

Manchester is not the same as Hull or Sunderland or Middlesbrough.

That said. I repeat. Everyone everywhere should get the support they need. It shouldn't be dependant on where they happen to live.

Quite why some people have a problem with that is beyond me. You'd think I was saying Manchester should get less than elsewhere! I'm merely suggesting that everywhere else that needs it also gets support.

And let’s not forget that AB gives 15% of his salary to the charity to end homelessness in Manchester.

I've said where I'm from on other threads. Where I currently live I don't want to say on a public forum. I don't have to just because you ask.

Patronising? Why? If anything I think it's offensive to dismiss the information in the linked article.

I don't get your problem. I'm not arguing against Manchester getting support. I believe everywhere that needs support should get (the right amounts of) support. What's wrong with that? How does it affect Manchester if other regions also get support?

@SheepandCow, but Andy Burnham would agree with you. He was very much trying to say, ‘First they came for the Mancunians’ sort of thing. Very much. And his point was that proportionally, Manchester wasn’t being offered the same.

[quote Hopoindown31]@SheepandCow the tell that to the government who brought in the potentially divisive local lockdowns without any clear formula for provision of support for the different tiers. Instead they prefer to have show negotiations where they don't let elected officials talk and instead issue ultimatums.

I am at a total loss why anyone would then try and blame local politicians for this mess and for trying to Stoke regional tensions.[/quote]
Why? Quite.

And then why make such a fuss over Manchester and T3 only to suddenly 2 days later dish out money to London in T2.

Its a bloody mystery to me what this is really all about.

John Crace @JohnJCrace
If the Manchester offer was formulaic rather than negotiations, as some tories now trying to suggest, how come the opening offer was only £50m?

FWIW whilst I'm not from there, I do have extended family in Greater Manchester (not the city of Manchester).

@SheepandCow

The North is not one big samey place.

Manchester is not the same as Hull or Sunderland or Middlesbrough.

That said. I repeat. Everyone everywhere should get the support they need. It shouldn't be dependant on where they happen to live.

Quite why some people have a problem with that is beyond me. You'd think I was saying Manchester should get less than elsewhere! I'm merely suggesting that everywhere else that needs it also gets support.

Ah so you are going to ignore my question because its inconvenience and might make you look like someone telling Manchester they dont know what its like in their own city. As it goes im fairly familiar with lots of the NW and West Yorkshire. They are places ive lived and worked and not googled.

Good stuff. Kind of illustrates my point.

@SheepandCow

FWIW whilst I'm not from there, I do have extended family in Greater Manchester (not the city of Manchester).

I had worked out you aren't from Manchester.

It fucking shows.

Well he has been side lined now anyway after having successfully walked away with the square root of nothing for GM.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/21/andy-burnham-hits-out-greater-manchester-tory-mps-covid-negotiations

Its one thing for people in and around G Manchester to differ in opinions on how Burnham has handled this.

Its another to have someone who isn't from Manchester and hasn't been to Manchester lately telling people who are, how its not that bad really and how other places are suffering from deprivation. And how the length of time G Manchester has been undrr restrictions is completely irrelevant.

Its staggering in its audacity, i'll give you that.

[quote NellyJames]@SheepandCow, but Andy Burnham would agree with you. He was very much trying to say, ‘First they came for the Mancunians’ sort of thing. Very much. And his point was that proportionally, Manchester wasn’t being offered the same.[/quote]
They didn't. Everyone seems to have forgotten Leicester. And it was Liverpool not Manchester that first went into tier 3.

What's wrong with everywhere getting the same amount?

I won't engage with you anymore @RedToothBrush I don't want to derail threads and also don't need the toxicity.

You clearly have a big chip on your shoulder against Londoners. You want to push the myth that they're somehow getting money others aren't (as if!) and then offensively dismiss links to articles (based on hard data) showing the level of deprivation there. That's so insulting to those suffering people. Thousands have died because of the deprivation. As explained in the linked article. Perhaps you'd like to tell Sadiq Khan you think he's talking shit?

The fact of London's deprivation doesn't take away from any issues in the North. However much you want to make it so.

I've no idea how attacking deprived Londoners helps Manchester.

London's economy has suffered badly since the first lockdown. They haven't suddenly been given a support package. Which is how much btw? Per head?

Whatever you might want. I stand by my view (which I'm entitled to) that everyone everywhere should get the support they need. It shouldn't depend on where they live. If they're struggling, they should get help. You might disagree.

I'll say one more time. As usual, when it comes to the North. The NE is overlooked.

I have not got a chip on my shoulder about Londoners.

I do have a problem with people who spout bollocks and a Westminster which really doesn't understand the problems the north has.

Its an issue that's ongoing and a feeling shared by a lot of people who know what problems they face daily but Westminster wont even acknowledge exist.

The sheer arrogance of someone telling me that there no economic meltdown due to restrictions going on for so long when i can walk along the street to see and hear about it first hand is mind blowing.

Im not surprised you dont want to engage on being called out on it.

You simply dont understand what is happening.

From a quick look I see tier 2 support packages have not yet been detailed.

Tier 2 includes (often overlooked when there's talk of 'The North') very deprived NE areas like Sunderland and Middlesbrough.

We don't yet know how much they'll be getting. Perhaps wait and see before jumping on it as an example of supposed special treatment.

Who knows perhaps it will be consistent with what everywhere else has so far been offered.

I hope people aren't suggesting these tier 2 areas shouldn't be given support.

I hope non restricted but still impacted economically areas like Cornwall are also given fair support.

Anywhere in need should get help.

YABU. Not liking all the anti Manchester sentiment on here tbh.