About the invoice?

[Floating662]

I've recently started as a cleaner for a large-ish company, to take the role they informed me I'll have to be self employed.

I have no prior experience of self employment but agreed to the terms and registered with HMRC in a timely fashion. Did some research. All fine.

On my first day (30th sep) when talking me through everything the manager said she would be sending me the invoice template for me to fill in and send to her by the 21st of the month.

I sent a polite email last week requesting said invoice template as I hadn't received it but received no reply so made my own as the deadline was approaching.

What I created was a professional standard invoice and sent it to her yesterday afternoon in pdf format (as reccomeded by the guide I was using)

I received a snippy reply this morning telling me it needs to be in microsoft word format and to redo it and send it today.

I wrote one out on Word and sent that.

I then receive another reply with a template attatched in a different layout telling me to use that in future as the accounts department are very particular.

AIBU to think she should have just sent me the invoice template in the first place if they are so particular, like she said she would

Respond saying that you sent your own invoice as you hadn't received their form but you'll using it from now on.

@sapnupuas

Respond saying that you sent your own invoice as you hadn't received their form but you'll using it from now on.

I definitely should have done that.

The template she finally sent me after critiquing the two invoices I sent, was already filled in.

She made the invoice for me complete with all of my details from the previous ones and askex that I use that one in future.

That makes me feel, as though they feel, I'm incompetent.

The icing on the cake being the one she sent me is in "read only" format so I can't use it next month anyway, I'll have to copy it and make another from scratch.

If you are self employed, then you would usually be in control of what your invoice looks like. Some larger companies may have a particular purchasing system that they might want service providers to submit in a particular format. But if this is just a paper invoice, then I would not expect to be told what the format should be if I were genuinely self employed.

So it does make me wonder if this is real self employment, or if in fact they are just trying to avoid providing you with the benefits you are entitled to as an employee.

Can you pick your own hours? Turn work down? Send somebody else along? If the answer to any of those is no, then I doubt this is self employment by the legal definition.

She’s an idiot. Can you contact Accounts directly and ask for the template to save you the hassle of redoing the old one?

If you’re working for a company are you 100% sure you’re actually self employed?

I can’t remember the law exactly but I think it’s something like if they’re telling you when to work then you’re not self employed. There’s a questionnaire you can take: www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

I wondered the same thing Florence.

They set my hours and days and I'm to turn up when they tell me. I'm not sure where I stand with turning work down. My agreement does mention "if you are sending somebody to cover" so it looks as though I can do that, but in every other sense I feel that im an employee of the company in all ways except holidays, SSP and other rights.

I spoke to HMRC and they said that due to the fact I'll be earning more than £1000 per annum I would need to register as SE, so I've done that to cover my own back.

The bother with the invoice has left a bad taste in my mouth, all of which could have been avoided if she had done what she informed me she would be doing.

It's clear from the email exchange they feel inconvenienced by the two and fro discussing the invoice, I certainly didn't need them to bother their arse by filling in the invoice on my behalf like I'm incapable, I could have done it myself days ago had they sent it in the first place.

Add a line adding an extra £15 admin and change fee

Crossed posts, thank you for the replies ladies.

I don't have the accounts department contact details but I'll have a look online and see what I can find.

I can't even edit the poxy template she has sent me as it's in "read only" format, I'll have to faff about switching from one page to another and copying the layout word for word.

If they arrange specific hours, location etc you are an employee not se. You should be free to use whatever format you choose. Do you accrue holiday, pay NI etc?

@CutToChase

Add a line adding an extra £15 admin and change fee

Oh how tempting that is

@LIZS

If they arrange specific hours, location etc you are an employee not se. You should be free to use whatever format you choose. Do you accrue holiday, pay NI etc?

No holiday pay, sick pay or maternity benefits/protection no.

I'm responsible for my own NI contributions and will have to deal with HMRC directly for those.

I only work weekends as i'm also a full time carer for my SEN child. I will make around £230 per month, it's alot of inconvenience for such hours.

If I were you I would take the gov questionnaire and then email them the results showing that you’re not self employed.

Don’t let them take advantage of you.

I'd bin it. It's not worth what you're being paid OP.

There are a shit load of cleaning jobs out there, especially atm during this awful year and they're making good money. Touch point cleaners especially weekends ones are proving hard to find.

@Florencex

If you are self employed, then you would usually be in control of what your invoice looks like. Some larger companies may have a particular purchasing system that they might want service providers to submit in a particular format. But if this is just a paper invoice, then I would not expect to be told what the format should be if I were genuinely self employed.

So it does make me wonder if this is real self employment, or if in fact they are just trying to avoid providing you with the benefits you are entitled to as an employee.

Can you pick your own hours? Turn work down? Send somebody else along? If the answer to any of those is no, then I doubt this is self employment by the legal definition.

This! I would be querying whether you are genuinely self employed.

You can save a normal version of a read only file by clicking 'save as' and calling it something different. What I'd do is save the read only version, then every month, fill it in, and save as the date you send it. That means you can't accidentally type over your template.

If you are self employed then you submit your own invoice as a contractor to them. They don't get to tell you what invoice layout to use!

And I can sure wouldn't be submitting a Word doc (which could be edited). Submit it as a PDF.

Questions you need to ask are:

• is this the only company you will be working for?
• will they be providing you with all the cleaning materials and equipment?
• will your hours be regular?

If the answers to these are yes, then they probably should be treating you as employed and not self employed

That is ludicrous.

All their suppliers aren't going to change their invoices to suit them. An accounts dept could have thousands of different invoice formats from all their suppliers. I don't see why they would have a problem with it.

I would create in in Word but send it as a pdf so that it cannot be changed by them.

I was going to post what bernadette posted.
Definately do not submit in Word only. You need a record of what you sent in an unchangeable format.

These replies are very helpful, thank you!

I'll fill in that questionnaire in a minute and will report back with the given outcome.

I too didn't see the problem with the PDF format. I created it on an invoices app and sent it directly from that. I also attatched it in an email incase for whatever reason they didn't receive it.

I took the job primarily as a bit of extra money for Christmas, being closeby and only weekends meant it worked for me. I just didn't foresee it being such a pain in the arse.

This is a delaying tactic that I have seen lots of buisnesses use. They wait until it's due , say 30 days, then say "oh we need in another format" and the 30 day clock starts again when they recieve the revised one. Then they say "it needs to quote PO number", or "needs to include Company name with Ltd at end" or other such can go on for months. Two responses I suggest, everytime you re-submit invoice keep original date of first invoice on it so they can't argue the 30 day thing, or walk away and find someone who will pay you promptly.

That’s a lot of faff for not a lot of money OP.

Well well well..

According to the questionnaire I should be under PAYE as I'm employed.

I would...

Email back requesting that they send the appropriate template in an edit-allowed format.

Invoice THEM for your time in faffing around doing admin work.

Then send your new invoice along with that link/screenshot and an email suggesting as per the screenshot, you are in fact employed, please send contract etc forthwith...

And then be prepared to walk, because they are going to refuse to do that as their business relies on a 'self employed' workforce they can rip off and abuse. But if you have already seen clients take them with you of course, they are standing on no legs with any non compete/don't poach clients clause if they are illegally trading by claiming employees are self employed.