AIBU to expect to be a priority getting on a bus in a wheelchair

[Worrysaboutalot]

I am going to start using buses whilst in my power chair.

Apart from wondering how I will physically be able to get on to the bus, I would like to know what is the law regarding prams and wheelchairs.

Do I have priority over a pram or not ?

Can I insist that a pram is folded, so I can get on?

There is only 1 bus every 2 hours between my village and the shopping centre, so I really can't risk being stranded there. On other hand I need to get out of the house too.

Any advice welcome. I am in the North West if that makes any difference.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs

Jeez. the 'Whatiffery' on this thread.

The law is the law.

Deal with your own issues elsewhere.

'Deal' with my disabilities? Really? I am severely disabled though not wheelchair bound, however I have a child. I'm unable to fold a pram. Thankfully I have a car but if I didn't, I'd be very concerned about using the bus. It's not whatiffery it's a fair bloody point!!

@Piwlyfbicsly

You have a priority over a buggy, yes. I genuinely wonder though, what a mother with a baby will do if she can’t fold the buggy and has to get off the bus and wait for the next 2 hours for another one.

I have twins, I have yet to figure out how to hold 25lb of wriggling child whilst folding my easy to fold pram despite all the declarations of people doing it with quads whilst carrying a months shopping. I can't imagine I'd ever go anywhere by bus if they were two hourly Anne you could potentially be stuck in the side of a road for 4 hours.

@Worrysaboutalot I think main thing is to be confident about your rights. I've seen drivers not give the parent in the space time to move, they've just said no to the person in the wheelchair and gone, meanwhile the parents saying hand on, give me chance to move and then it's too late. I'd recommend pulling into the bus to argue your point if necessary then they can't drive off without you

You have priority but if the bus arrives already full not sure they make people get off to accommodate you.
The poor driver can ask but they don't have power to restrain or physically move people if they say no there's nothing they can do .

There was a case a few years ago which highlighted that they are obligated to provide the space but they have no enforcement powers.

You cannot blame the driver on there own and challenging the general public can be dangerous and unpredictable

What about disabled mothers? (I am one, though thankfully I have a car) Just because someone has a pram, doesn't mean they're able to fold it.....

It’s pretty obvious that the poster I was replying to wasn’t talking about disabled mothers.

these threads pop up all the time.
I really wish people would realise that the wheelchair space is just that.
its a space for people in wheelchairs. it doesn't matter what you make up.
its a WHEELCHAIR SPACE.

OP, presumably your Motability car will be a WAV (wheelchair accessible vehicle)? Until you get that I would be very hesitant about getting public transport, because as others have said, there may already be a wheelchair in the wheelchair place, or you may come across an uncooperative bus driver - unless a bus driver is concerned with being assaulted him/herself, maybe they could refuse to move the bus until the stubborn parent moves their buggy out of the wheelchair space?
As for having enough money for a taxi, or calling a friend in an emergency, there are often no, or very few taxi's that are Wavs, (until recently I lived in a medium sized seaside town that had one WAV, and he obviously could not cover all day, or even every day), so that might not even be an option for you, especially in a rural area. As for friends with WAVs, that is very unlikely, but of course you will know if you have any.
For those of you who do not understand the problem, hardly any electrically powered wheelchairs are foldable (and the disabled person has to be able to transfer to do so), the powered chairs are also extremely heavy - so very difficult to lift even without the person seated in them, and that would be the case even if there were two strong adults to do the lifting. The vehicle, they go in, either has to have a ramp, or a lift, and legally the car has to have the correct strap points attached to it, so that the chair can be attatched to them with the correct straps, whether it has someone seated in it or not. That is because even on it's own, during a too sudden stop, a steep incline, or an accident, the chair could become a flying missile.
As my medications make it impossible for me to drive a car, my husband is the named driver for my Motability WAV, so I can only go out when he is available. I think it may be sensible to wait until you have your WAV car before you risk journeys out (I know it can be very boring being stuck to your local area) but unless you do have absolutely certain back-up, it would be safer.
You mentioned having been to the cinema recently with your partner, does that mean that you also have a foldable manual chair which makes it at least possible to go out with your husband in his car, as that would make the wait for your car more bearable? I really feel for you OP as my youngest child was about 16 before I became wheelchair dependant, and by what you say, you still have very young children, I don't know how you cope, especially in a rural area, and them having to get to and back from school? Having your power chair for that (if the schools are within wheeling distance) must be a great improvement. I'm wishing you many happy outings when you get your chair

[quote Pearsapiece]@x2boys it's actually an accessible space...[/quote]
And this is why although you should get priority in reality if there are people thinking that their buggy should have the same priority as a wheelchair user it will be difficult for you

I've just checked two of my local bus providers policies @Pearsapiece and both refer to the space explicit as a wheelchair space rather than "accessible space" One of them provides live tracking of how busy a bus is - when you click into it you can 'improve the information' by showing if the wheelchair space is occupied - which is great although it doesn't seem to show this information as standard on the landing page for the live bus track which is a shame but is a sign of some improvement I guess....

I am really glad that buses are so accessible these days (our main local bus has a full wheelchair space on one side & an area opposite where the seats fold back)
When my dc were small you had to fold up buggy before getting on bus & god forbid you were in a wheelchair! Than you had to climb steps with folded buggy plus baby plus helping next down child (who had issues with movement - we were on route to physio ford most of these journeys ) & pay the driver & than hope there was space in the awkwardly accessed luggage rack which you than had to put buggy in whilst holding db & dc whilst the bus driver moved/bumped off, Than you hoped to find a double seat (any seat). & equally difficult getting off with impatient bus driver !
yep things have improved thank goodness! Hope your journeys are trouble free op!

nb if you have buggy & need to use buses use rucksack or at least bag s with shoulder strap.

Bl3ss3dm0m
I have a backup folding manual chair but I can barely self propell a few metres on the flat, as my arms nerves are damaged and weak.

My powerchair does fold to the size of a massive pram but takes up virtual the same floor space as when it is up and I am sat in it. Plus I can't lift it or keep it stable on a moving bus.

Likewise none of my mum friends could lift it into their cars, nor during these times of Covid would I ask for a lift. Likewise I could not get the chair and me into a taxi either.

I have applied for a mobility people carrier as I have four young ish kids. I need hand adaptions to drive and a 4 way hoist to get my powerchair into the car. Assuming the DVLA sort out my driving license, everything crossed.

(For troll hunters info I only traveled on buses with the first three kids, when I had number four baby, that was 4 kids under 6yo for the first few months! So we bought a family car for me, no more buses. Thank goodness)

My husband can lift either the manual or the powerchair into our current car. Though I prefer my powerchair, she is my freedom :)

My husband also tries his best to carry the power chair out and help me out, so I can take the younger two kids to their primary school, which is in the village and I can wheel there, though I have to zig zag a bit to use the lower drop curbs. When I get back to my house, I often have to wait until my husband can nip out between meetings to help the chair and me back into the house again. Which is why I carry waterproofs with me, for the days I sit outside in the rain waiting. Roll on new front door installation with a low threshold.

It is amazing the number of small things we take for granted daily.

I rang the Ring and Ride people. Turns out I need to get anchor points fitted to my chair before using their service. I am guessing these are the same anchor points I need in order to hoist my chair and strap it down into a car.

Wonder if there needs to be different points depending if my chair is folded or not?

Any advice welcome. Else I will ring a mobility shop and see if they can help.

I also rang the bus company.

1. Yes, all their buses can 'kneel down' and the driver can operate a flap ramp from his cab.

1. Wheelchair take priority over prams and all drivers have been trained in disability issues.

1. The bus depot is a tiny industrial estate just before our village. So I will be getting on stop 3, hopefully the chair space should be clear on the way to the shopping centre.

1. He said it was usual that everyone gets off at the shopping centre and they pick up all the returning customers and dropped them back in the village, before returning to the depot. So he felt it would be very unlikely to have 2 wheelchair pickups on the return journey but to ring him back if I get any problems.

So overall sounds very hopeful.

As the mother of a disabled child (though not physically) this thread is a bit of a sad read.

I hope you encounter decent people if the situation arises and you need the wheelchair space Worrysaboutalot

@ivfbeenbusy

Yes you get priority however If you live in a village in the middle of no where with an infrequent bus service the bus driver is hardly going to evict parents and babies and leave them stranded if it has several prams already on board but of course everyone should try and get them folded to make space.

You'd be surprised how unhelpful fellow bus passengers can be though when faced with a mother struggling to fold a pram for a young baby whilst also trying to hold the baby (and what if she has twins!?)

This. What bus bus driver is going to kick a mother off with a double buggy and small babies.

It’s a shit situation.

YANBU.

And bus companies have caused this issue. When the laws were changed to make buses accessible after years of campaigning from wheelchair users there should have been clear rules. That only foldable pushchairs would be allowed. Not these massive things. People would have coped, hell I did it 20 years ago when accessible buses werent an option with 2 disabled toddlers. I used to have one in a carrier on my front and one in an easily collapsible trolley. It was fine. I'd keep the walking one on reins, kick up the back of the trolley and plonk them on.

The rules from day one should have been made very clear.

@Creepycaterpillar

You have absolutely, legal priority over any non wheelchair user (buggy, shopping trolley) on buses. Have a Google. The space is a legal requirement for wheelchair users. The driver should make people move if they don't do so willingly.

This. Sadly it won't always happen, OP, and there are a lot of entitled parents out there who think they are more important because they have procreated.

I also don't know why prams have to be so enormous these days. I had a Maclaren umbrella buggy suitable from birth - so practical and easy to deal with.

If shopping centres ever open again, I suggest some posters here bag a seat near the lifts and watch how many times it takes a wheelchair to get into a lift at busy times. It might make you rethink quite how we act as a society.

Many times I'd go up/down a floor, get into the lift so that I could bag a space for DW to use.

Legally you have priority over the protected wheelchair space at the front (the bit opposite the folding seats). Legally mums have to move their prams out of the wheelchair space for you. Elderly people and people with mobility aids have to move or get off too. But most buses only have space for one wheelchair so if there’s a wheelchair user already in it you’d have to wait for another bus. I think mobility scooters also have equal rights to the wheelchair space but you might want to check the law on that.

Also depends on the driver, if the bus is full he might not stop.

Some drivers do seem to prioritise mums with buggies (maybe they don’t want the hassle of kicking someone off the bus or a fight breaking out). Often there are 4 prams crammed in and the mums start arguing over who has to fold/get off. Some of the old fashioned prams don’t fold. If nobody will get off I don’t think the driver has any legal power to physically remove someone so they’d have to call the police to do it. I’ve never seen a driver actually do that, they usually just say ‘sorry no space’ and drive on.

Of course you could complain to the bus company. But I’d have some numbers for wheelchair accessible taxis just in case you get stranded.

Yes you have absolute legal priority. Good thing you don't live in London. I've lived here my whole life and have never once seen a parent fold their buggy, regardless of how busy the bus is and how many more people could utilise the bus if they did so. I have seen a wheelchair user on the bus 4 times in my life and 3/4 times the parent has kicked up a massive fuss or simply pretended they can't see that a wheelchair user is trying to get on. They only moved when other passengers intervened as drivers are often useless here with enforcing basic behaviour.

why do people keep telling the op to do things like look into taxi's?
why not suggest that option to people with babies?
I really wish bus drivers would just stop the bus until the parent vacated the space.
or never let anyone apart from a wheelchair/sn buggy use the space.

I think a bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss on this thread and in general TBH. OP I hope you get to go out and have an event- free bus journey. I have a (pretty big) 11 month old baby and use buses sometimes and I would fold it up for a wheelchair user without blinking. Luckily I live somewhere where buses are very frequent but we should be prepared to put others first sometimes, we're a very selfish society IMO.

I really hope that you are able to use the bus without problems OP. Some of the comments from selfish entitled mothers on this thread have really annoyed me and I hope nobody like that lives near you. The wheelchair space is for wheelchair users only. If you can't use public transport without stealing the space from a wheelchair user then don't use public transport. Nobody forced you to have children.

why do people keep telling the op to do things like look into taxi's?

Experience ?

I can't use taxis or ring and ride, as my chair doesn't have anchor point labels and apparantly I can not get these put on my chair as I imported it.

So when my bus pass arrives I will have to just try it and see. If there are selfish mothers on the bus, then I remain housebound for a few more months. It isn't like I have any other choice.

or never let anyone apart from a wheelchair/sn buggy use the space. Yeah cos I can totally balance 25lb of wriggly twins in my arms along with carrying a pushchair and nappy bag plus keeping hold of my son and his oxygen tanks because the only "group" we can judge en mass is parents with pushchairs who are all selfish entitled dicks. And yes, I give myself enough time to get off of needed.