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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want nanny to wear a mask around DS?

218 replies

Rainallnight · 20/10/2020 09:57

DS is two. He’s with a nanny three days a week. He’s prone to colds and runny noses, as are lots of toddlers. The nanny has complained that she has twice picked up a cold from him, and has suggested wearing a face mask around him.

I think this is (a) a massive over reaction and (b) not good for DS. He has speech delay and really needs to be able to see people’s faces to develop his communication.

Surely picking up kiddy colds is a bit of an occupational hazard for nannies?

But tell me if I’m missing something.

(Obviously I have no problem with her wearing one in shops or other situations where it’s Covid-mandated. This would be all the time, including at home).

OP posts:
flaviaritt · 20/10/2020 19:12

It's high risk regardless of the number of people. Odd logic

No, the more people, the higher the risk. Just ordinary logic.

Sewrainbow · 20/10/2020 19:25

I've just got over the most horrendous cold I've had in years despite wearing a mask in public places and at the university and hospital where I work. In fact I though it was an interesting point that the mask and extra hygiene procedures this year hadn't prevented the common cold infection!

GoldenPoppy · 20/10/2020 19:30

To all the people saying that their nursery staff don't use masks, are you actually sure?
We never informed the parents that most staff were now wearing masks and obviously nobody can enter the building to see.
Staff have been threatened with disciplinary procedures if more than one person in the building shows symptoms and there is no money for isolating, not even ssp. Thd staff are trying to protect their health and finances.

flaviaritt · 20/10/2020 19:37

Staff have been threatened with disciplinary procedures if more than one person in the building shows symptoms

What?!

GoldenPoppy · 20/10/2020 20:02

They say it means that the staff haven't been following social distancing correctly if more than one person gets it, its almost impossible.
The masks are on and off so often it becomes unhygienic, much easier to leave them on. Some staff have underlying conditions too.
Its a no win situation really. We are just trying to be outdoors as much as possible.
This is a large chain nursery.

Hardbackwriter · 20/10/2020 20:04

@GoldenPoppy

To all the people saying that their nursery staff don't use masks, are you actually sure? We never informed the parents that most staff were now wearing masks and obviously nobody can enter the building to see. Staff have been threatened with disciplinary procedures if more than one person in the building shows symptoms and there is no money for isolating, not even ssp. Thd staff are trying to protect their health and finances.
Unless DS's nursery are deliberately carrying out a campaign of deception by taking the masks off for all photos and videos (which they post multiple times a day) and handovers I'm pretty confident they're not wearing them. What you've said about staff disciplinary procedures and no wages is shocking, and horrible. DS's nursery have also explicitly stated that they pay all staff self-isolating their usual wage so, again, assuming they aren't actually lying in their official policy and correspondence I don't think this is the case
Isthisannoying · 20/10/2020 20:06

You sound entitled. You're basically happy for your nanny to get sick because it works better for you if she doesn't wear a mask. If you're that bothered get new nanny.

flaviaritt · 20/10/2020 20:07

They say it means that the staff haven't been following social distancing correctly if more than one person gets it, its almost impossible.

This is a gross abuse of their position. There is no ‘safe’ indoor environment, masks or no masks. The virus is airborne. They would lose at a tribunal if you have evidence of this.

stardance · 20/10/2020 20:14

Not exactly the point of the thread but I agree with those who say childcare staff have been shit on a bit here. While I completely agree that it's not great for children to be cared for by people wearing masks, it does seem unfair that nursery staff etc then just have to take the risk. Especially considering young children don't exactly have the best hygiene standards and social distancing is impossible!

Colds, tummy bugs etc are a risk of the job that staff just expect. Covid is not. They have families at home, bills to pay etc just like everyone else.

Masks probably aren't great for elderly people in care homes or hospitals for example, but staff working with them have to wear masks and other PPE don't they?

PolarBearStrength · 20/10/2020 20:26

@GoldenPoppy

To all the people saying that their nursery staff don't use masks, are you actually sure? We never informed the parents that most staff were now wearing masks and obviously nobody can enter the building to see. Staff have been threatened with disciplinary procedures if more than one person in the building shows symptoms and there is no money for isolating, not even ssp. Thd staff are trying to protect their health and finances.
Very sure. It takes them slightly longer to open the door now because they have to fiddle around putting a mask on (nursery policy) which you can see through the massive windows and glass door at drop off and pick up. Which seems a bit of a mad policy because they have literally spent all day with our toddlers wiping their snot all over them, holding their hands, wiping their bums, giving them cuddles etc. But there you go.
morethanmeetstheeye · 20/10/2020 20:43

Ok. So to be very blunt

Yes you are bring unreasonable and also, if you request it, acting illegally.

The nanny is within her legal rights under HSE regulations to wear a mask, as are any childcare or teaching staff (irrespective of what government 'advice' may suggest).

She is entitled to wear a mask or visor if it makes her feel safer and more secure in her work and what you as a parent may feel is, to be honest, irrelevant.

It's not about you/your child's protection. It's about hers and she has the right to protect to herself.

Wearing a mask with a transparent window would allow a child to see lips and therefore expressions/ lip & mouth formation within speech but children are remarkably adaptable and resilient and will cope with an adult wearing a mask.

Perhaps adults need to be more adaptable and resilient too...

MindatWork · 20/10/2020 20:45

@GoldenPoppy Our DD’s nursery included a statement on masks in their covid procedures when they were preparing to reopen - they said they felt they couldn’t offer the same level of care for the children while wearing masks and refusing cuddles etc, so they had taken the decision as a team to work as normal with additional cleaning, more time outside, bubbles etc. It’s worked brilliantly, the kids are happy and there actually seem to be fewer of the usual coughs and colds going around this year (maybe fewer children or more time outside?).

I’d be really unhappy if I felt they were ‘hiding’ the fact that they were wearing masks around the children without informing parents. Sorry but your management sound terrible, threatening staff if anyone gets ill!!!

morethanmeetstheeye · 20/10/2020 20:45

Oh and a pandemic is a different situation to 'picking up kiddy colds'

I appreciate your child has speech delays so a transparent mask would be a good medium. However, you will be constantly modelling speech at home so 2 days per week with someone in a mask wouldn't affect too much.

morethanmeetstheeye · 20/10/2020 20:50

@flaviaritt

No mask wearing at nurseries and preschools here.

Or here. If they adopt it I’ll take my daughter out. I get that people want to feel safe but it’s not fair for little children to spend hours every day in the company of masked-up adults.

Let's turn this around.

It's not fair that adults who are more susceptible to the virus have to spend time unmasked around children who could be asymptomatically infected purely because of their job whilst many others can work from home/behind plastic screens/wear masks.

Are childcare workers/teachers magically immune?

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2020 20:51

Yes you are bring unreasonable and also, if you request it, acting illegally.

What fucking nonsense Grin Grin Grin

morethanmeetstheeye · 20/10/2020 21:27

@TheKeatingFive

Yes you are bring unreasonable and also, if you request it, acting illegally.

What fucking nonsense Grin Grin Grin

Go and look up the HSE information about employees and masks.

It states clearly that employers must allow employees to wear a mask if they wish to.

Simple and very enforceable

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2020 21:30

It states clearly that employers must allow employees to wear a mask if they wish to.

If you can point me to legal precedents set where employees have been granted the right to wear masks to prevent colds please do.

Thx

Rosebel · 20/10/2020 21:33

We looked round a few nurseries lately for our son. One was using masks but the other three weren't. So I think it varies from nursery to nursery.

EL8888 · 20/10/2020 21:36

YABU l wouldn’t regard it as a “occupational hazard“ and yeah would be tempted to wear a mask. Who wants a cold, especially at the moment

morethanmeetstheeye · 20/10/2020 21:37

The reason why she wants to wear one is irrelevant. She has requested to wear one and therefore her employer has to support her.

LittleMissLockdown · 20/10/2020 21:39

l wouldn’t regard it as a “occupational hazard“

Honestly have you met toddlers they are disgustingly cute snot monsters who have little to no concept of hygiene. Any adult who goes into a career working with them would be pretty niave to assume they wouldn't be almost garunteed to catch a cold from them if they had one.

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2020 21:41

The reason why she wants to wear one is irrelevant.

Erm, no it isn’t

She has requested to wear one and therefore her employer has to support her.

You’d need precedent in English law to support that, what cases can you refer to to support your point?

Quarterback11 · 20/10/2020 21:44

My friend works in a nursery and they aren't allowed wear masks, because of your concerns and more.

They can wear visors.

Primary school teachers are wearing masks here almost all the time (sometimes a visor for reading)

saraclara · 20/10/2020 21:45

[quote Rainallnight]@JuiceyBetty Yes, I had no idea it would be so divisive. Which was stupid of me.[/quote]
It's probably actually not that divisive. It's just that the majority of posters on this thread have no comprehension skills. That or they just skimmed your OP and didn't bother reading any further.

It's mind-boggling that so many have failed to notice or acknowledge that a) this isn't about Covid - she just doesn't want to get a cold b) a normal mask won't stop her getting a cold and c) it wouldn't even have occurred to her to wear a mask to avoid a cold, pre-covid, and nor would any parent have thought it reasonable for her to.

I think the only thing you can do, OP is to say no, pointing out your child's speech difficulties, and reminding her that masks protect others, not the wearer.

morethanmeetstheeye · 20/10/2020 21:48

The HSE regulations state this and have to be followed by employers. This is a relatively new set of recommendations/guidance and I am sure that there will be/are cases going in right now.

I know of several schools and nurseries local to me who had union reps brought in to discuss and agree to these terms, including our local council (I work in a high position in education and was part of the process). The employers were originally going to follow the governmental 'guidance' but the HSE guidance has to also be adhered to it the employer is seen to be failing in their duty of care. This could then become at best, negligence.

Anything else you wish to ask? I am not a lawyer but am a Head who has been involved in these discussions,