To not want nanny to wear a mask around DS?

[Rainallnight]

DS is two. He’s with a nanny three days a week. He’s prone to colds and runny noses, as are lots of toddlers. The nanny has complained that she has twice picked up a cold from him, and has suggested wearing a face mask around him.

I think this is (a) a massive over reaction and (b) not good for DS. He has speech delay and really needs to be able to see people’s faces to develop his communication.

Surely picking up kiddy colds is a bit of an occupational hazard for nannies?

But tell me if I’m missing something.

(Obviously I have no problem with her wearing one in shops or other situations where it’s Covid-mandated. This would be all the time, including at home).

@TheKeatingFive do you expect your employer to have a duty of care in the workplace? If yes there's your answer. Of course someone empllying a nanny in their home has a duty of care.

do you expect your employer to have a duty of care in the workplace?

I expect this ‘duty of care’ to be balanced out with how it impacts ability to do the job.

Wearing a mask would seriously hinder her ability to provide care and stimulation for the child, which is the current position of any nursery I’ve come across.

Why should the OP offer any different conditions to a nursery in this regard?

What if you said yes to her wearing one, when your dc has a cold? And she wouldn't need to wear it the rest of the time.
If she wears it when you're not there, would you even know she'd done it?

@ThatDamnScientist

As her employer you need to make her environment covid safe. She should be allowed to wear a mask.

My understanding is actually that as an employer you have to do a risk assessment and ensure that suitable mitigations are in place, not that the employee can insist on any measure they want. So if the OP was confident that she could defend the current situation due to the other factors - guidance not requiring mask wearing in childcare workers, the fact that this is one-on-one care so they're already a very small bubble - then she's done her duty as an employer.

In practical terms, I might let her wear the mask on the grounds she'll almost certainly give up on it - at the start of term quite a few teachers at DH's school were wearing masks outside the situations where they have to (the corridor) but now they've all quietly stopped; I suspect she might find the logistics of wearing a mask constantly while caring for a toddler more hassle than she thinks its worth. But, as I said, it would make me doubt the level of care and engagement she's giving in the first place, and it's hard to come back from if that doubt has crept in.

Masks are worn in nursery's more than most posters think.

In my nursery we have to wear a mask during drop off/pick up times, when changing a nappy and when travelling around the building.

We have also been told to wear a mask if we can't keep 2m from other members of staff.

Most of the time someone has a mask on or at least half on.

@TheKeatingFive

As her employer you need to make her environment covid safe. She should be allowed to wear a mask.

So why are no nurseries doing this then?

Because teachers and childcare workers are being treated like shit (I'm not a teacher or a childcare worker, I'm a disgruntled parent who is fucked off with the way they are being treated).

You have a duty to keep your nanny safe at work, yes.

The nanny is specifically worried about catching colds though which isnt 'unsafe' and the OP does not have a duty to stop the nanny getting a cold from a toddler as it is a normal occupational hazard.

But like PP have said there isnt any evidence that normal non medical grade masks would keep her safe anyway. Toddlers snot in their hands and wipe it on you and sneeze in your face etc! The only way you could actually keep her safe from covid would be medical grade masks, goggles, gown and gloves and that clearly is not going to work.

The OP would be providing a mask just to make her employee feel better, while providing no practical benefit, to the detriment of her son. The OP is not obliged to do anything just because it makes her employee feel safe, rather than because it actually keeps her safe.

The employee could argue that she is scared of covid and that not being masked is affecting her mental health and then the OP would have to consider it, or be at risk from a situation where the employee becomes stressed...but the employee doesnt seem to be saying that at this stage, they are annoyed they are catching colds from a toddler rather than being worried about being seriously ill from covid.

I would consider getting a new nanny

A Balance needs to be found to suit everyone because like it or not as an employer you do have a duty of care.

Of course I do. But the compromise I would be willing to make might be a visor, not a full mask. And that’s in line with government advice so 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think it's ridiculous and would make her unsuitable as a nanny in my view. The genuine care for your child doesn't seem there if she is more interested in not getting a cold than showing her face to your child.

I agree your priority is your child's needs,also keep in mind tne nanny's priority is her safety and that of her own family. A Balance needs to be found to suit everyone because like it or not as an employer you do have a duty of care.

The OP should not employ someone who cannot meet her small child's needs. No ifs, no buts. It's negligent parenting. Doesn't matter what other concerns or issues they're balancing.

childcare workers are being treated like shit

A cloth mask would do very little to protect a childcare worker and would seriously impact their ability to connect with the child. We need some common sense applied here.

@TheKeatingfive because if the OP dosent at least try to come to a mutual agreement over the mask she may well find herself without a nanny. In the current climate employees have to put their own health first.

@Jobseeker19

Masks are worn in nursery's more than most posters think.

In my nursery we have to wear a mask during drop off/pick up times, when changing a nappy and when travelling around the building.

We have also been told to wear a mask if we can't keep 2m from other members of staff.

Most of the time someone has a mask on or at least half on.

Different nurseries are doing different things, because they've done their own risk assessments and, contrary to what some people think, an employer's risk assessment doesn't have to include either every possible measure or anything that an individual employee requests. At DS's nursery staff don't wear masks at any points, and the COVID policy states:

We have reviewed if practitioners should wear face coverings on receiving or handing over children at the beginning and end of each day, and have decided against this as we believe this is not good for our children’s well being. It is important that when being welcomed into the nursery, there is a familiar face for the children to see and recognise, particularly for our babies, and after lengthy discussions we have decided against this.

This is allowed - they've weighed up the risks and benefits and reached a conclusion. It isn't just 'Covid trumps all'.

And again, the OP has repeatedly said that the nanny isn't worried about Covid!

because if the OP dosent at least try to come to a mutual agreement over the mask she may well find herself without a nanny.

Anyone can quit their job for any reason they like, the OP would have no control over that anyway.

Sounds like the OP would be better off without this particular nanny anyway.

@MessAllover so you would justify being a negligent employer over everything? Good luck ever employing a nanny if that's your attitude.

It isn't just 'Covid trumps all'.

Exactly

YANBU, but mainly just because wearing a mask is not much of a protection for the wearer; it would prevent her from giving him colds, etc. so readily. Also, a nanny cannot socially distance from a toddler, so she's likely to catch things even with a mask. I do understand not wanting to pick up colds at this time, especially as you can't always be sure at first that it's 'just a cold' and it could result in the need for testing (not always quick to get at first) and self-isolation for a while.

Until the covid pandemic, the front line of preventing transmission of colds was frequent hand washing, binning tissues, not sharing cups and plates etc.

Also, as pp says Vitamin C, Echinacea etc.

unfortunately due to so many employers having your views childcare workers are now considering leaving in droves. Well done

If most employers share OPs views those workers won't find work elsewhere though will they.

For those saying ‘there is no evidence it helps’ the government tried to push this perspective at the beginning of the pandemic and now masks are worn wherever you are near people indoors and many other counties require them outdoors (also being discussed here). Worldwide it is accepted that masks do help therefore there is evidence that it is a reasonable mitigation measure not just for Covid but for other diseases/virus.
Cuts and abrasions are common in construction, Employers have to ensure operatives wear PPE to protect them... it does not have to be life threatening for it to be a health and safety issue! As for them not being required in nursery I agree this is because care providers have been thrown to the wolves in this respect. At the beginning they said there was no evidence of it being transmitted in schools, this has been proven as wrong at best and disingenuous because it is in their best interest to keep schools open. While I agree schools should remain open, there has been a practical media blackout about the fact that schools and nurseries are one key area that covid is spreading.
You do have a duty of care to your employee and the wearing of one does not prevent her from caring for your child, playing and creating a good environment. The fact that you don’t like it is not IMO a good enough reason for this to be refused

You do have a duty of care to your employee and the wearing of one does not prevent her from caring for your child, playing and creating a good environment. The fact that you don’t like it is not IMO a good enough reason for this to be refused

I very much think it compromises care of a toddler, who is learning from and reassured by facial expressions. So I have go with that.

*to

She’s talking about colds though. Colds are exceptionally contagious and short of wearing a hazmat suit, total protection isn’t possible.

The fact that you don’t like it is not IMO a good enough reason for this to be refused

She’s not refusing because she doesn’t like it, she’s refusing because of the detrimental it will have on the nanny’s ability to do her job.

Detrimental impact

Maybe up your kid's vitamine intake and better meals to prevent him from catching so many colds?