Etsy selling real fur *MNHQ Content Warning for written imagery of extreme animal cruelty*

[CSIblonde]

I searched faux fur cushions on Etsy & got a UK seller selling real rabbit fur, sourced from Hong Kong. I knew rabbit fur, imported, is ok in UK law but I didn't expect to find it on a modern,forward thinking company's website. You can't fail to know (sickening videos of it are everywhere ) that slaughter methods there involve a slow, painful death,often skinned alive. You can't email their CEO but there is an [email protected] who I emailed expressing my disappointment. I got the most patronising email back ,quoting import law & saying that because they have a diverse community & seller base there were bound to be some things I found 'disagreeable'. If you want to check it out, redbubble.com is just like Etsy but has way more choice,far nicer products & doesn't sell real fur.

@fallfallfall

There are no industries that skin alive, step away from fake news.

Aw it must be lovely to be this naïve!

It's considered animal cruelty and abusive if you squash a bug in your house

It's not though, is it? If you have to bullshit to make your point, why bother?

There are other sites similar to etsy that don't allow the sale of fur or other animal products. I use them.

I don't use Ebay. I stopped when it was found that you could buy illegal ivory on there. I guess I won't be using Etsy now either. Oh well.

@fallfallfall How much do tickets to your planet cost? It must be lovely to live in a world where animal cruelty doesn't exist.

I feel conflicted, I'm all for vintage fur as it's best to reuse but financing the making of new fur is a no for me

Imho fur is ok if the whole animal is used. I have number of things (and always did) with rabbit fur. Why would we throw away when butchering our rabbits. It's a waste.

I don't agree with farming just for fur, but if you ever eat rabbit, they had fur so why not use it. Same with cows and pigs (skin).

@HartnellAvenue

Yes the descriptions are graphic. Unpleasant to read but that is exactly why you should read them. Positive change was never brought by burying your head in the sand and staying wilfully ignorant.

@Purpledaisychain Which site is that?

That's grim and would put me off using Etsy.

In response to @DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult - it's obviously completely impractical for most people to stop shopping at Tesco/Asda and meat is recommended as part of a balanced diet. I personally hardly eat any as I agree that mass meat production is pretty awful, but its hardly comparable to buying real fur products that have no purpose other than how they look. Same with medical products.

Mumsnet is so fucking odd sometimes. People wanting to buy a puppy get a hard time for not rescuing a greyhound instead yet everyone piles on to defend the fur industry. Bonkers.

DotTheCaddy if people are only going to do the practical things, that don't imapct them too much in their lives, then they shouldn't be all up in arms lecturing folk, sending emails and calling balanced replies with legislation and reassurances 'patronising'.

There are plenty of alternatives to all animal products, so the use of any of them are selfish and unnecessary.

The meat and fur industries these days are entirely comparible. You can't pick one to be upset about while supporting the other. It is hypocritical.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

I understand where you are coming from but we just dont need fur to survive in the same way as we need a source of protein, of which meat is one of the best and most readily available. It's just a luxury product.

I'm actually totally with you that humanity is extremely selfish to consume as much of it as we do, but I think that's changing as more vegan/veggie options are becoming available but there needs to be more of a 'softly softly' approach to weaning people off meat whereas fur I would straight up argue is just unnecessarily cruel and we should have a zero tolerance attitude.

Sorry defo didn't put enough full stops in that last bit

I eat meat, I try to make ethical choices elsewhere as much as possible, but I do also make selfish choices and am very far from perfect.

This is why I would never think to be emailing businesses and lecturing people, while simultaniously supporting very similar industries, I have no right to.

I'm not taking issue with what the op is saying at all, the world would be a much better place if we stopped using animals for our own benefit. I'm taking issue with the absolute hypocrisy of saying one type is absolutely disgusting and wanting boycotts and bans, while utilising the other for your own benefit.

See I totally disagree. Meat production in the UK is subject to strict animal rights rules in a way that fur production in Asia just isnt. I don't disagree that there is still unfortunatley still suffering involved but we at least attempt to minimise it. Plenty of people eat meat in the belief the animal has been kept and slaughtered humanely, the same cant be said for people who support fur farming. Its vile and just for vanity.

So hell yes I want to ban and boycott and I don't feel like a hypocrite for saying so. What's the alternative, people just stop caring about any issues at all because we cant deal with them all?

There is plenty of meat and animal products in supermarkets that doesn't come from the UK too. And even though there are strict rules here, there have been cases where people in these industries have been caught being cruel also.

If you eat or use animal products you are contributing to animal cruelty, there is no getting away from it.

Complaining about one side, that you won't ever use anyway, while utilising the other on a weekly basis, because that one benefits you, is hypocrytical, 100%.

The alternative is to be consistant in your beliefs before lecturing others, if you're not it totally undermines everything you're saying.

I would never, for example, campaign for marriage equality, then tell my kids its wrong to be gay, or stand outside an abortion clinic telling the people its a sin and make them feel shitty, then go and have an abortion because it suited my needs, or protest against domestic violence, then stick up for a family member who was hitting his wife. I would also never say that the modern fur industry is completely wrong and immoral while also eating meat, wearing leather shoes and benefiting from cheap milk, eggs etc.

You cannot lecture people and complain about something you also contribute to.

OP are you aware that so many "faux fur" products are actually real fur? There is a way to tell the difference, but if you order online and it turns out to be real, you've already bought in to increasing the need for real fur.

I believe it is cheaper overseas to use real fur over faux fur.... So if you want to be 100% you aren't contributing to animals being skinned alive...you need to stay away from faux fur too

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

There are instances, but there are instances of people being cruel to their pets as well and we dont say that owning a pet is unethical.

If you eat meat you are contributing to an animal dying, sure, but not necessarily in a a way that constitutes animal cruelty. Or at least we do our best to try and make it that way in this country.

As far as I'm aware there are no standards for fur farming in Asia because the government doesn't give a toss. So yes I'm happy to keep lecturing.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that eating meat isnt intrinsically wrong. It has health benefits and we are part of the food chain along with lots of other animals. It's the scale of it that I dont agree with and yes, in lots of cases how the animals are treated before they are slaughtered. But the actual act itself of eating an animal in my opinion is fine. Wearing another animals skin purely for fashion is something else entirely if you ask me.

Personally I dislike Etsy as a site for allowing 'KILL ALL TERFS' products but banning 'adult human female' ones, but that's by the by

I use Etsy a lot so I’ve just ran a search.
I could find just one TERF related product in the UK and that was a small badge with the slogan ‘TERF is not a slur’

The argument that Etsy aren’t responsible for the products on their site is nonsense. They removed the ‘i heart jk Rowling’ stuff and the dictionary definition of woman stuff, on the grounds of it causing offence

DotTheCaddy I get your point, although I don't wear fur, i do eat meat, but I disagree that one is more 'worthy' than the other. Whether it is for food, when there are good, healthy alternatives, or fashion, of which there are alternatives, both are selfish and unnecessary. Both industries are problematic.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

We definitely agree there, both industries are so problematic. It's such a shame. I wish there was more awareness of the alternatives in both industries.

I'm actualy shocked yabu is the majority vote, animal cruelty should not be tolerated. OP yanbu the fur trade is vile and cruel.

[quote CSIblonde]@Elsewyre you obv haven't googled Yulin Dog Festival, or know about current legislation trying to stop it. I don't see how it's racist to find boiling & skinning dogs,cats & rabbits alive horrible. My partner is half Arab,half French btw as you're obsessed with race. Korea is now making some headway on reforming their animal welfare law around humane slaughter .[/quote]
But your examples are all from differnt countries to where she gets her fur.

Why would i Google the dog festival when slaughtering dogs for meat has been illegal in Hong Kong for over 70 years?

Why would I care what koreans do in relation to Hong Kong.

You have basicaly clumped all the asians together as one group.

That was my point it's like blaming the English for the French making fois graiss because it's all europe

@DotTheCaddy

That's grim and would put me off using Etsy.

In response to @DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult - it's obviously completely impractical for most people to stop shopping at Tesco/Asda and meat is recommended as part of a balanced diet. I personally hardly eat any as I agree that mass meat production is pretty awful, but its hardly comparable to buying real fur products that have no purpose other than how they look. Same with medical products.

Mumsnet is so fucking odd sometimes. People wanting to buy a puppy get a hard time for not rescuing a greyhound instead yet everyone piles on to defend the fur industry. Bonkers.

So you really own nothing made from leather?

Do you not find that hard to carry out given most fake leather still uses leather layers?

The only thing i disagree with in the op is If you want to check it out, redbubble.com is just like Etsy but has way more choice,far nicer products & doesn't sell real fur.. As others have pointed out etsy is made up of thousands of individuals selling their crafts that are not fur.

Dont get me wrong i have no problem with the sale of vintage furs but modern furs are awful and unnecessary and yes a lot of animals suffer in places like china who lets face it, are not top contenders in human or animal rights laws.

Thanks op for starting the discussion. If its legal then etsy wont do anything but at least people can be made aware to make their own decisions, after all lots of people wont use products that are sold in china due to their animal testing laws so people absolutely will want to know about this.

@Swallowzandamazons. You are correct, many faux fur pompoms still sold today are real fur. Dispatches made a doc on it once.