to think this shows a complete lack of understanding for how people's lives work?

[CallmeMrsScavo]

DH and I are going through the adoption process. During all the open days and meetings with our agency before submitting our ROI, the adoption agency mentioned there was online training to do and we would need to do some volunteering (but could be done at weekends). Now we've submitted our ROI and they've emailed through with five dates over the next month we need to take completely off work for the training sessions.
DH and I are both teachers. We can't take leave unless it's during school holidays. We're not legally entitled any leave for the adoption until we get matched with a child. How on earth do adoption agencies expect people to do this!? I understand that they need future parents to put their child first but if my child were sick (for example) our employers would obviously make an allowance - but they obviously won't make an allowance for us to just fuck off to "train" for 25% of the time we're supposed to be working!! It feels as though the adoption agency are intentionally sabotaging our careers so we have more of a focus on a child - but they seem to be forgetting about that money thing that we need to actually feed the child!
How has anyone else managed this? Surely the adoption agency should've mentioned that they're expecting us to basically not do our jobs!
I've already posted this on the adoption thread but posting here because it's the only thread on Mumsnet that anyone views/responds to. And, no, I'm not slating social workers. My dad was a social worker and I was very close to the care system growing up.

I'm sorry this is so frustrating - a great deal of the adoption process can be like that.

If the agency can't offer any evening, weekend or school holiday courses (full or partial) and you can't get the time off even with more notice for further in the future, then I guess it's time to look at alternative agencies.

When I did my adopter prep courses quite a few of the others were teachers (it was scheduled in the summer). The course, though, was extremely useful and I still recall parts of it now many years later. They don't ask people to do the course just for kicks.

I think parts of the process leading up to approval do give you a flavour of some of the challenges once you adopt - the lack of ability to plan (as the child's needs can be much bigger than expected), the intensity of feelings (a child who may be grieving or traumatised), the having no time (inability to use childcare etc as it may be too much change to start with). However, I'm not sure if that's deliberate by the SWs or accidental!

My business partner had this problem, not teaching but we can't just book days off over a month, I have children as does our other business partner, we've always managed with sickness /nativity etc using grandparents or each other. Those that place children don't live in the real world. They managed to find an agency that ran workshops on a Saturday.

If you were pregnant would work give you time off for your antenatal appointments eg scan.

Will work not discuss this issue and could you try putting the above argument across, that if you were having a child in the "normal" way they'd give you time off and by not doing so its discrimination in one way or another?

It’s utterly bonkers and I don’t understand why some posters are having a go at you. I worked in a school and my family thought it was ideal and were shocked when I changed to a job with only 6 weeks holiday but in the school I would have missed sports day and assembly as I couldn’t have had an hour to pop to school to watch dc say one line then head back to work.

Maybe look at other agencies to see if they offer weekend courses? Even my antenatal class was offered on a Saturday!

@Bramleyapples13

I aren't aiming my question at you OP, but why is there training? What does it involve? I'm looking at the adoption process at some point and wasn't aware of this. It is no wonder few people go forward for adoption when they complicate things. People doing the "natural" way of becoming parents don't have to do any of this.

I understand it is frustrating to feel you might have to jump through hoops that people who give birth to their children don’t have to go through.

However adoption is different to giving birth to a child. A child is being placed with you and I don’t think anyone would want to think of that being done without some expectation of people’l being provided with support to understand children’s needs before. I think the training covers stuff specifically about some of the needs that adopted children might have, as many with have experienced time in care or abuse and so the training will doubt address that.

@Viviennemary

And they wonder why people are not coming forward to adopt. It's very depressing.

Does sound a bit..rigid. Surely they realise this is hard for most people, but near impossible for some

could you try a different adoption agency.
this would put me right off. what else might they be vague about.
they seem to have misled you minimised what would be required.
many people in medical settings also could not just be off suddenly like this.

Bramleyapples13, the training, if I remember rightly, explains the process, educates you a little about what type of children you might come across, and tries to equip you with some knowledge of how to parent them.
These children have almost always gone through trauma of some sort, and will need very different parenting to most.
The training helps you to consider, truthfully, what kinds of child you could parent.
Could you care for a disabled child? One who is damaged by drink or drugs before birth? One who has gone through sexual abuse? How would you support them?
Would you want to parent a child who you knew had a life limiting condition?
If you already have other children, what would the impact on them be? Could they cope with a new sibling who eats from dustbin or fights them over food, because they grew up having to do that just to survive?

There is so much to consider, and these training courses help you to decide what you can and cant cope with. There is no judgement, just the need to be honest with yourself. No one wants anyone to take on more than they can handle, so this course examines your wishes and capabilities, your boundaries and your support.

The course helps you examine your support network to see who can help in practical and emotional ways, how you will deal.with things yourself, etc.

Sorry, that was an essay!

Feel for you, OP. People don’t understand the impossibility of this sort of thing in education

.............and education isn't the only profession, or job where people can't both afford to take 5 days off in a month. Quite frankly, if your employer can manage to just release you on 5 specific days in the coming month, I'd say they were in the minority. Imagine hospitals trying to work their rotas and cover around this....the police... paramedics....fire fighters..... teachers....Nurseries.....indeed shop workers or lorry drivers.....HVs...midwives.......dentists....GPs......
What if you run your own business - can you afford to a) not earn for 1/4 of the month and b) take the knock on effect that has on your business of having to cancel work.

I think adoption agencies need to have a good think about the way they work. I'm sure it is really valuable to do this training, but there needs to be a realistic expectation of most people's work commitments. Prospective adopters need to be able to access this training from a menu of different times it can be available, some of which needs to be at weekends.

Also 'volunteering' Really ??

I have a relative who went through the process and at times it felt like hurdles. I think the agencies are quite inflexible because so few people make it through, and even then many adoptions break down, I think they just seem to plough on.

They need to be sure that people are completely committed and wholehearted about it. It has to be tough to get through.

I wasn’t in education when I did my adoption training but found it hard re the training times. In the end I had to change my working pattern as you will also have a lot of home visits to book in.
It might be worth trying a different agency or seeing if they have any courses running in the holidays. It might take a bit longer to do the courses but you could be doing the home study bits at the same time.
I didn’t have to do any volunteering in the end but I did some extra courses (at weekends!).

Been there, and similar situation, dh works in a job where appointments with very vulnerable clients cannot be cancelled, social worker said, ' oh you both need to attend bla bla 90 miles away next Wednesday' we said if he does that, he'll lose his job, and she actually said with a head tilt and a snarky voice ' well if you don't attend you're not getting the baby' brilliant. Work on both fronts, talk to head again and also to social worker, these processes make you frustrated, confused, annoyed , but you'll find the way, and achieve something amazing x

Gosh OP, it sounds difficult but they need you to do this training so you understand the problems children in care might bring with them - even a tiny baby. I don’t know the solution if you can’t get the time off to do the training, moving agency is one suggestion I suppose, but bottom line is you need to do the training so you can cope with a potentially very damaged child.

This was probably the 20th such meeting in a few months. Literally a years leave gone.

Sounds horrendous. As someone who works in a school, I suppose it's down to the discretion of your employers but I totally totally get you

You need a precedent to follow. Are there any other staff at your school who have adopted? If so, can you find out if they got leave for the training, or how they organised it?

Or, ask the adoption agency how they have accommodated teachers, or other people unable to get the time off. You can’t be the only people to have this problem before, the agency must have dealt with this issue so many times

We had a week long course in a centre 2 counties away. We just had to suck it up. It was what we had to do to keep our family together (we adopted our foster child)

Thank you for everyone's responses.
Yes, I did get annoyed with posters who said to just do it. I wouldn't be here if that was an option. This is NOT like pregnancy, nor is it like looking after a sick child. Your employer will give you time off for those things. They are not the same situation at all. If I refuse to go to work then I won't have a job, if I refuse to attend the training then I won't have a baby. I cannot just be in two places at once.
I completely understand the importance of the training, I do not understand the importance of dropping everything at the last minute to screw around my students, colleagues and employer because the adoption agency rang their bell. Having a job that lets you take a million days off for training and appointments is not the same as having one that is child-friendly or family-oriented. When I was a lawyer, I worked 70 hours a week and commuted for another 18. They'd have happily given me this time off because it looks good for them to be "inclusive" but I'd never see my children. Adoption agencies seem to not recognise or care about the difference.
Thank you to everyone who offered genuine advice and their thoughts.