to think this shows a complete lack of understanding for how people's lives work?

[CallmeMrsScavo]

DH and I are going through the adoption process. During all the open days and meetings with our agency before submitting our ROI, the adoption agency mentioned there was online training to do and we would need to do some volunteering (but could be done at weekends). Now we've submitted our ROI and they've emailed through with five dates over the next month we need to take completely off work for the training sessions.
DH and I are both teachers. We can't take leave unless it's during school holidays. We're not legally entitled any leave for the adoption until we get matched with a child. How on earth do adoption agencies expect people to do this!? I understand that they need future parents to put their child first but if my child were sick (for example) our employers would obviously make an allowance - but they obviously won't make an allowance for us to just fuck off to "train" for 25% of the time we're supposed to be working!! It feels as though the adoption agency are intentionally sabotaging our careers so we have more of a focus on a child - but they seem to be forgetting about that money thing that we need to actually feed the child!
How has anyone else managed this? Surely the adoption agency should've mentioned that they're expecting us to basically not do our jobs!
I've already posted this on the adoption thread but posting here because it's the only thread on Mumsnet that anyone views/responds to. And, no, I'm not slating social workers. My dad was a social worker and I was very close to the care system growing up.

@NoSquirrels

There is no "more convenient time". The only convenient time would be when I don't have a job, in which case they wouldn't allow us to adopt without any income

Don’t be daft. You’re teachers - you have 12 weeks off a year, 6 weeks of them in one chunk.

I get you’re annoyed, but this is not an insurmountable problem and you don’t need to give up your job to solve it.

Yes, exactly. We get A LOT of time off and yet adoption agencies think teaching isn't "child friendly" unless we are able to demand yet more time off at less than one week's notice!! Teachers have an immense amount of holiday compared to most jobs and yet the only measure adoption agencies use is whether we can take holiday at the drop of a hat.

When my son was in hospital and the doctors wanted a meeting on the first day of a new school year, with a new class in a new school they actually told me I needed to put my son first! Sorry that's no help but I do understand where you're coming from. It's really difficult when you're a teacher and people don't understand it's near impossible to attend appointments during term time. Hope you find a solution.

@NoSquirrels

There is no "more convenient time". The only convenient time would be when I don't have a job, in which case they wouldn't allow us to adopt without any income

Don’t be daft. You’re teachers - you have 12 weeks off a year, 6 weeks of them in one chunk.

I get you’re annoyed, but this is not an insurmountable problem and you don’t need to give up your job to solve it.

Also, do you have a solution seeing as you think it's so easy to solve? The courses run when the adoption agency run them. They don't run them in the school holiday and I can't get leave in term time. Please solve how I can be in two places at once.

If I was your employer I’d say no to 1 day off every week for 5 weeks, yes.

But if 2 weeks were over a holiday, and it was booked well in advance, so they can plan, then I think you’d be more likely to get 3 separate days off.

I appreciate your difficulty is that you need to co-ordinate this between 2 jobs both with the same difficulty, but it’s still possible even if you need to wait until the summer.

@Diverseduvet

When my son was in hospital and the doctors wanted a meeting on the first day of a new school year, with a new class in a new school they actually told me I needed to put my son first! Sorry that's no help but I do understand where you're coming from. It's really difficult when you're a teacher and people don't understand it's near impossible to attend appointments during term time. Hope you find a solution.

Schools are very understanding of current children - that's why it's so great to be a teacher. With our son, we've never had any issue having time off if he's unwell or needs us. But the adoption process is not the same as actually having a child and it's not the same as pregnancy. Schools tend to view one as a choice and one as an obligation - and they won't enable time off for something we're choosing.

They don't run them in the school holiday and I can't get leave in term time.

You didn’t say that before, OP!

TBF teaching isn't actually very child friendly. Yes, you don't need holiday childcare but it doesn't fit well with anything else around family.

You need to tell the school you need the time off or tell the agency you can only do the course in the holidays.

We, as an SLT, would agree this, if we were sure you'd really tried to get it, or at least some if it, done in the holidays.

@NoSquirrels

If I was your employer I’d say no to 1 day off every week for 5 weeks, yes.

But if 2 weeks were over a holiday, and it was booked well in advance, so they can plan, then I think you’d be more likely to get 3 separate days off.

I appreciate your difficulty is that you need to co-ordinate this between 2 jobs both with the same difficulty, but it’s still possible even if you need to wait until the summer.

But two weeks aren't over a holiday - even in the summer. That was a different poster saying that was THEIR situation - not mine. It's all well and good you saying "I wouldn't allow time off in your situation but I would allow time off if you completely change the situation".

@NoSquirrels

They don't run them in the school holiday and I can't get leave in term time.

You didn’t say that before, OP!

Yes I did. That's the entire purpose of this thread. If I could do them in term time then I wouldn't need the time off...

I do understand about teaching - both my parents were teachers.

But not every adoption agency is the same, and not every school is the same.

I’m sure there is a solution but you seem determined that there isn’t so I’ll take your word for it.

@NoSquirrels

I do understand about teaching - both my parents were teachers.

But not every adoption agency is the same, and not every school is the same.

I’m sure there is a solution but you seem determined that there isn’t so I’ll take your word for it.

It's incredibly frustrating that you've decided that there's a very easy solution and yet you can't think of one. I'm simply not going to respond to you anymore.

You didn’t say there was no possibility of a different course not in term time.

You said they’d offered you this particular course.

Not that none ran in holiday time.

I’m sorry it’s shit.

I think how helpful your school will be depends very much on the head. But you seem to have decided already that he/she will be unhelpful. I know staff who have been off for ivf treatment, I've been off several times with mcs and appointments related to this - I think you should have a discussion about the whole process with your head(s) and see what they say. I'm sure they would expect you to attend days in the holidays so it's important for them to be made aware it's these days or nothing.

Ask the agency to run training in the holidays.

I know you’re angry but maybe not biting people who have taken the time to responds heads off would be a good idea? 😬

Have your school actually said they won’t facilitate the course? Even if you gave a significant amount of notice by going on the next one?

We would absolutely allow this at my school by arranging internal supply if we had enough notice.

I’d also be annoyed about the volunteering bit. Why do you need that? You both obviously work. What does working for free prove?

I hope you can find a suitable course. Or change agencies, if that’s possible.

FWIW I can’t take tomorrow off to accompany DH for a hospital procedure (he needs a named person to collect him, it’s not just me trailing along). Ironically, because I have to put other people’s well-being first. It’s rubbish and you have my sympathy 💐

Have the adoption agency refused to run the training in the school holidays or just don’t currently have any planned for the school holidays. I wonder if they’d consider changing th dates for you.

Is it possible to do the same training with another agency instead or move you adoption application to another agency. I assume there must be some that run them over longer/different periods of time.

It sounds quite frustration. Really everyone should be allowed time off for these types of appointment given there are so many children who need families.

Have you asked your schools? You may not be legally entitled to the leave, but the school Head will surely consider it? Just give it a go.
And if your school cannot give you time off, then you have something to go back to the agency and ask them to change the training day.
Best luck

LadyWithLapdog, the volunteering isn't to get you to work for free, it's so prospective adopters have a little experience of spending time with children/babies.
However, OP says she has a dc already, so it's a bit odd in this case.

This is a ridiculous situation and a perfect example of how inefficient, unrealistic and out of touch adoption agencies are. Also the volunteering! What's that about?! I started my volunteering career once my DC were older. Surely most parents of young children are too busy working to earn a wage and, you know, parenting?

I heard a radio interview a few years ago with a man who had a similar experience when trying to adopt. He said the process was very unprofessional and the agency staff far too emotionally driven. It was an eye opening interview and it seems the whole system needs overhauling.

Good luck with the process. Sounds like you'll need it.

Doyouknowwhat - thanks for explaining. I thought it was any kind of volunteering and I couldn’t see the relevance.

I aren't aiming my question at you OP, but why is there training? What does it involve? I'm looking at the adoption process at some point and wasn't aware of this. It is no wonder few people go forward for adoption when they complicate things. People doing the "natural" way of becoming parents don't have to do any of this.

@Brunt0n

I know you’re angry but maybe not biting people who have taken the time to responds heads off would be a good idea? 😬

Yes I did rather think this too.

I'm sorry this is stressful and upsetting op.

I have a relative who went through the process and at times it felt like hurdles. I think the agencies are quite inflexible because so few people make it through, and even then many adoptions break down, I think they just seem to plough on.

OP - is part of the problem that you don’t want to have to be so open with your workplaces so early in the process? I have adopted and ended up having to be open to get the time off. I did end up having to push quite a bit for it to be recognised as similar to time for ante natal but I did get it all agreed in the end.

I hope school are more understanding than you think they are going to be. The agency won’t be flexible because it’s almost another hoop you have to jump through to prove you are serious enough