Page 2 | to consider homeschooling DD12?

Miriel · 19/10/2020 19:49

YANBU.

School may be causing a great deal of the anxiety, in which case taking her out of school will help immensely. If the anxiety isn't primarily school-related, then removing the stressor of school while she works on overcoming it will also be beneficial.

I was extremely anxious at that age. Much of it was caused by school, but I was told that I wasn't able to try other educational options because 'hiding from the real world' would make things worse. This did a lot of harm because I started believing that 'the world' in general, after leaving school, would be just as terrible and I wouldn't cope. I'm in my thirties, have had several full-time jobs over the years and got a university education, and nothing I have ever done has been as anxiety-provoking as school. Being able to fit in at school isn't a prerequisite to doing well in adult life, and constant negative social interaction at school isn't better for a person than no or limited social interaction (obviously positive is better!)

Proudling · 19/10/2020 19:49

For her to actively choose to discard/cut off the existing friends she has known for a while indicates her issues are quite severe. I’d expect an anxious child to be happy to have the familiarity of a long standing friend so her ‘choosing’ to stop talking to them and isolate herself further, not because of a fallout but because she’s decided that she has nothing in common with them concerns me. Definitely get her the counselling she needs.

HerculePoirotsGreyCells · 19/10/2020 19:56

Not unreasonable at all. We homeschooled Dd from age 14 due to being bullied at school because she has ASD. We gave school several chances to meet her needs which they did not. We used Interhigh but many choose to provide the subjects themselves. Some choose to study one or two subjects a year and then take the exams. Then move onto something else. It's entirely up to you.

One thing to note is not all councils are supportive. Always keep to written correspondence. You may be asked to provide a yearly report or have a meeting. You are within your rights to refuse a meeting but I would do the report as it shows what your child has been studying.

That said, it was totally the right thing for DD, she enjoyed Interhigh and sat her exams privately. She's now at college.

blissfulllife · 19/10/2020 20:04

Have you addressed this with school?. Some schools have councillors that come into school. Our school has a teacher who does an anxiety workshop. My daughter suffers terribly with anxiety exasperated by the fact she's ASD and she's having some help through the schools councillor and teacher. It's awful to see them so lonely and anxious like this. I considered homeschooling and I did it for a while but she became even more withdrawn. It was easier for her to withdraw from normal life and it's made things worse now that she wants to get back into full time education. Best of luck x

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 19/10/2020 20:16

Not necessarily anti home schooling (though I would never consider it) but I would worry about the msg you’re sending, ie. that it’s ok to hide yourself from society.
I would address her issues first. You will want your child to socialise, date, get a job etc. And she will need to gain that confidence and those skills. Most people gain these through traditional schooling

2020hasbeenbloodyawful · 19/10/2020 20:21

@Ohalrightthen

She needs therapy first. Removing her from school will do nothing to improve her social anxiety, as she won't be exposed to much society at all. It'll just delay it til the next time she has to face people, for instance the workplace. You'd be doing her a massive disservice if you just pulled her out of school without getting her help for her anxiety first.

Cannot agree more that she sounds like she could benefit from therapy. Social anxiety is a crippling thing.

On the other hand, I recall how fucking awful I found high school. The constant socialisation and just being surrounded with dickheads crippled by self-confidence for years.

I truly feel that if I had had an experience like homeschooling instead and built up friendships with kids of similar interests, like in the HE community I would have grown into a very different adult.

Does she have any hobbies she is interested in, OP? Could you start something together for a confidence boost with her to begin with?

AibuTellMe · 19/10/2020 21:06

YANBU. School is not for everyone. My son thrived during lockdown and was 1 of the top students for submitting the most work at the highest quality out of the whole school, in comparrision to being at the bottom in the lowest sets when he is at school. I've sent him back for the social side, and because I work when he is at school so it just couldn't happen. Is a shame.

StillCounting123 · 19/10/2020 21:48

OP, I'm planning the same with my DS, 11. One thing in my mind is to take it a term and then a year at a time - if they suddenly develop emotionally and want to go to school then that is possible.

Original poster

mangoesforever · 19/10/2020 22:33

@Kaiserin She's not a massive fan of lessons. Her abilities are fair across the board but she is too shy to ask for help or interact. No she doesn't enjoy the library. The playing with dirt is because the yr 7 'quiet area' (they have to go to this area at breaks) is on a grassy area, and she doesn't take her phone to school because she is so afraid it will go off during a lesson and draw attention to her - even if she turns it off she worries.
She has a YouTube channel with a fairly large following (18k) - she makes animated videos, that is her hobby at the moment and she's looking into streaming games etc.

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Original poster

mangoesforever · 19/10/2020 22:36

@Miriel

YANBU.

School may be causing a great deal of the anxiety, in which case taking her out of school will help immensely. If the anxiety isn't primarily school-related, then removing the stressor of school while she works on overcoming it will also be beneficial.

I was extremely anxious at that age. Much of it was caused by school, but I was told that I wasn't able to try other educational options because 'hiding from the real world' would make things worse. This did a lot of harm because I started believing that 'the world' in general, after leaving school, would be just as terrible and I wouldn't cope. I'm in my thirties, have had several full-time jobs over the years and got a university education, and nothing I have ever done has been as anxiety-provoking as school. Being able to fit in at school isn't a prerequisite to doing well in adult life, and constant negative social interaction at school isn't better for a person than no or limited social interaction (obviously positive is better!)

This is how I feel when I look back at school. I feel like school just isn't replicated for most people in their adult life, it's quite uniquely awful for some kids.

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Original poster

mangoesforever · 19/10/2020 22:37

@Proudling

For her to actively choose to discard/cut off the existing friends she has known for a while indicates her issues are quite severe. I’d expect an anxious child to be happy to have the familiarity of a long standing friend so her ‘choosing’ to stop talking to them and isolate herself further, not because of a fallout but because she’s decided that she has nothing in common with them concerns me. Definitely get her the counselling she needs.

Yes, I am quite perplexed at her feeling better sitting with no one/having no friends out of choice. All she says is that people make her feel uncomfortable and she hasn't met anyone she has anything in common with.

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Original poster

mangoesforever · 19/10/2020 22:40

@2020hasbeenbloodyawful
Another hobby she had was ice skating lessons but it's about a 50 minute drive away, and it was difficult to fit in. That is something we could start up again.

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2020hasbeenbloodyawful · 19/10/2020 22:43

[quote mangoesforever]@2020hasbeenbloodyawful
Another hobby she had was ice skating lessons but it's about a 50 minute drive away, and it was difficult to fit in. That is something we could start up again. [/quote]
If she likes ice skating could you try roller blading? Go together a few times and see if there's any classes where she can meet kids without the pressure of school.

Social interactions, when they are out of her trigger setting, may be entirely different experience for her.

Original poster

mangoesforever · 19/10/2020 22:47

@2020hasbeenbloodyawful yes I'm sure she would. I'd definitely pursue classes and opportunities for her to socialise.

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Saracen · 19/10/2020 23:37

"School may be causing a great deal of the anxiety, in which case taking her out of school will help immensely. If the anxiety isn't primarily school-related, then removing the stressor of school while she works on overcoming it will also be beneficial."

I agree with @Miriel ! It may be that she will be totally fine in the absence of school; for some kids, leaving school fixes all the problems. Even if that isn't the case for her, reducing the extra stress caused by school will make it possible to see more clearly what is going on for her, and she will have the energy to tackle the issues at a pace she can handle.

School is designed for extraverts. Most teachers are extraverts and while they are well-meaning, I think they don't really grasp how relentlessly difficult the environment is for children who are not like them.

My first career involved interacting with people for most of the time. I was good at it but found it incredibly stressful, though there was nothing objectively, inherently stressful about the job and most of my colleagues found it pleasant enough. Eventually I realised how big a toll it took on me and changed to a career in which I spent the bulk of my time working alone. It suited me much better and I loved going to work.

When adults are unhappy at work we suggest they change to a job which is a better fit for them. When children are unhappy at school we expect them to learn to fit in. Kids deserve to be happy. They deserve to grow up in an environment which matches their needs.

baffledcoconut · 19/10/2020 23:40

@mangoesforever message me. Very outing but I can put you in touch with some excellent groups.

MsEllany · 20/10/2020 00:31

@Frequentcarpetflyer oh is that so? What level is appropriate would you say - for example, I got all As and Bs up to A level but that was 20 years ago. Plus I've had no training as a teacher.

Maybe pinpointing 'education levels' wasn't the best terminology but you need to have a word with yourself if you think just because a person went to school they will be fine to home educate.

Alwaysultraprotect · 20/10/2020 01:32

I would’ve thought taking her out of school would make her anxiety worse. Especially during the pandemic, would be difficult to meet other people and do activities. Perhaps you should try it and see how it goes. Maybe in the half term?

I find it strange that she would prefer to be on her own and is actively choosing not try and make friends. It’s not like she is being bullied

Saracen · 20/10/2020 01:34

you need to have a word with yourself if you think just because a person went to school they will be fine to home educate

@MsEllany, I think you are imagining that home education looks like school. Few home educating parents use the school-at-home model, and therefore we don't need the same skills as teachers. For example, we don't need to be able to engage dozens of pupils all at once in a busy classroom, deal with disruptive children, or understand the individual learning needs of a child we barely know. Our job is much easier than that.

I see myself as a facilitator, not a teacher. I help my children find the resources they need in order to learn. For example, my eldest was most interested in subjects about which I knew nothing: music, art, and sports coaching. I helped by looking for for online resources, books, knowledgeable people, courses, choirs, music ensembles, tutors, and sports sessions.

However, my teen was also able to identify many resources without my help, especially as they got more advanced and better at networking. I had very little to do with it in the last three years before they went to university. In fact, there was only one subject they studied which was very familiar to me, namely maths. I have a degree in maths, so I always assumed I'd be delivering lessons in maths for GCSE. I was wrong. It turned out that my kid found many other resources to prepare for maths GCSE, and I only gave a small bit of input very occasionally. My help wasn't instrumental. Often, "lessons" from a parent are neither needed nor wanted!

Those of us who went through the school system tend to assume that the way we were educated is the only way or the best way. It isn't so. Sixteen years into home education, I am still unlearning all that I thought I knew about education.

Saracen · 20/10/2020 01:47

I find it strange that she would prefer to be on her own and is actively choosing not try and make friends. It’s not like she is being bullied

This is only a guess, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if she is shutting down somewhat because she is feeling overwhelmed by the increasingly complex social demands of adolescence. Interacting with all those people all day long, constantly worrying whether she is saying the right things, doing the right things, wearing the right things - it's all exhausting. If it's all too much for her, she may feel it's necessary to withdraw even from her few close friends. And/or she may be right that she doesn't have much in common with her old friends; people do often grow in different directions. It isn't unusual for primary friends to go their own way when they start secondary.

MsEllany · 20/10/2020 02:12

@Saracen you could be right (although I was mainly responding to a snarky comment!).

Home schooling over lockdown has been dismal for my children. I have one with pretty severe SEN, one with less severe SEN, and one who is bright. And a husband who has really bad dyslexia, he's been to school but is shit at helping because of his own SEN. I could guide them through, but two of three need more attention than I have to give as I work full time, so I suppose I'm wondering how I would make it work.

I'm also thinking back to a thread years ago now where a poster who could barely string a coherent sentence together wanted to home school four children, can't remember the reasons.

Elsewyre · 20/10/2020 02:47

@mangoesforever

She has what I'm guessing is social anxiety. She finds it incredibly uncomfortable and nerve racking to "be around people". She has always had at least one close friend throughout primary, and I thought secondary school was going ok for her...but last week she decided to stop talking to her long standing friend and another girl they had both befriended at secondary (they're in Yr 7) because they "have nothing in common" and "make her feel uncomfortable". She says she sits on her own now out of choice at break and lunchtimes and "plays with the dirt with a stick" (she doesn't take her phone to school) and she just wants people to leave her alone.

She finds PE torturous, she is incredibly self conscious.

I am in a position to be able to homeschool her, would prob follow the national curriculum but also focus on coding and fun stuff too. We'd have time to go to the gym and go running together, I feel confident I could help her sufficiently with the academic stuff and get her prepared for GCSE's.

I just don't believe school is for everyone, and can actually do more harm than good for some kids.

Sounds like shed be missing socialisation and learning how to interact with people, which also seems to be what she should be focusing on.

Removing yourself from society is not a healthy stratagey and I think you need to focus on making her able to comfortably interact with others not simply remove her from it.

icclemunchy · 20/10/2020 02:59

We've been home educating for just over a year now. My eldest is 9 and gone from no friends to more than I can count. Mostly because she can now make friends with people she has something in common with beyond being born in the same year and living in the same area.

My youngest has a social communication disorder. The fact that the home ed community is so accepting of everyone being different and having different needs means she's come on leaps and bounds since we pulled them out. She can actually talk to other children now!!

If you think it's right for you and her OP give it a try. If it doesn't work then she can always go back to school be it the same one or a different one. Social groups are obv hard atm but the home ed community is resourceful and there's still lots going on

Goosefoot · 20/10/2020 03:11

I think it's fine to take her away from school but you will still need to try and make sure she is seeing people and not hiding away, and you will want to address the anxiety.

I think school can create social anxiety because the environment is so unnatural. Too many people, too much drama. I homeschooled my kids for years, and it was very notable among the homeschooled kids that their behaviour was different and they were much more socially comfortable compared to public school kids - not just with their peers either but also adults and younger children too.

So I would take her out, but look for a few homeschool groups doing things she would be interested in. Just keep an eye on her anxiety, in case it doesn't improve by being out of the hothouse of the school.

Goosefoot · 20/10/2020 03:16

[quote MsEllany]@Frequentcarpetflyer oh is that so? What level is appropriate would you say - for example, I got all As and Bs up to A level but that was 20 years ago. Plus I've had no training as a teacher.

Maybe pinpointing 'education levels' wasn't the best terminology but you need to have a word with yourself if you think just because a person went to school they will be fine to home educate.[/quote]
Studies of homeschooled kids suggest that the parents level of educational attainment has no impact on how well the kids do.

Now, this was back when homeschool parents expected to be involved in teaching, and now it's more common to see them relying more on online courses which they hope will limit their involvement. But most of the time it's about the commitment of the parent to helping the child rather than the parents own school achievement.