Relevant professional experience & friend's child

[PlumsInTheIcebox]

This is going to be vague and I apologise in advance if that is frustrating but I won't be drawn on specifics, I'm afraid.

I have professional experience of working with children and young people with certain SEN. A very close friend's child is starting to present with some signs that they might also have one of these needs. The child is in Infants and slightly younger than the children that I encounter professionally, and would probably not receive any formal diagnosis (if indeed this were necessary) for a couple of years yet, but it is a need which tends to respond well to early strategies. The child is starting to misbehave at school and I think the two things might be related.

The question is whether I say anything to the parent, who is one of my closest friends. I would be particularly grateful to hear from anyone who has been in the parent's position in this situation.

YABU - keep your beak out, hope that the professionals who work with the child are noticing the same as you and be supportive if and when any assessments start.
YANBU - gently say something.

You could some how mention something work related to her relevant and see if she asks your opinion for advice then go from there.

But basically no unless you are asked I would not say anything

How do you think friend would respond? Some people might take it badly / be offended. Though it might still be in the best interests of the child to bring it up.

Alternatively friend may feel relieved and grateful for your input and support. My son has ASD (and ADHD). He wasn't diagnosed with these conditions until age 13 and 15. He did seem "different" as a small child but didn't present with the most frequent symptoms of Asd (no sensory/food issues, very adventurous) and I couldn't work out if anything was wrong or not. I raised it with primary school and got fobbed off (he was wild/ naughty/ lazy etc).

Eventually got support from secondary SENCO and it took over two years but finally a diagnosis. I mentioned it to some teacher/ social worker friends and they nodded sagely and said they'd worked out that he had ASD many years ago. I thought "FFS why didn't you SAY SOMETHING? "

Hi @PlumsInTheIcebox.
I'm not sure I agree that it's a loaded question.
Your friend knows your profession (?) so is aware when she discusses her child that this is the case. I'm wondering if somewhere she's hoping that you will offer your opinion and advice.
If she doesn't want your opinion you could ask her how you can best support her?

If you're concerns are confirmed this is likely to be a long term feature of your friendship so it maybe best to agree what the boundaries are now.

G'luck

I was the friend (I'd had many years of working with both children and adults with SEN, although not in a diagnostic capacity!), but her child had such difficulties that I felt I should say something.
She didn't speak to me for at least 2 years. During which time her child got an official diagnosis and support in place.
But it was sad and awful.
She still doesn't speak about the past or acknowledge that there had been a problem early on.

I have professional experience of working with children and young people with certain SEN
Do you have relevant qualifications too?

Ultimate, it's down to how you approach it. Let her know that from your experience, there some possible signs, but you ARE in no way suggesting any diagnosis at this time, just suggesting early interventions in case it could help.

If someone noticed something about my child that I couldn’t see (either due to closeness or because they behave differently in other settings) then I would rather someone say something to me. She can either respond saying it’s been looked into already or just say that she doesn’t think the symptoms fit and move on.
I know a few SEN children and they have definitely done better by early diagnosis than the ones who didn’t present until school age (this is specifically for autism though). The ones who have children who didn’t present with classic symptoms until school find it harder to get help than those who were diagnosed earlier.

You day you are close friends - are you normally Frank and open, or do you watch what you say and how you say them with her? I'm generally a very frank person though I try to be very conscious of people's feelings but with my close friends I would certainly start asking questions if the topic came up about their behaviour ("has anything been discussed with you regarding extra support or specialised needs?") Youre not outright making a diagnosis or saying they do need that, but as a SEN provider you're asking the questions you'd ask of any family whose child was encountering difficulties. But only you will know if you're friend is likely to receive that kind of question well or of they'd respond badly.

If she brings up the fact that school have spoken to her and specifically mentioned a possible cause, could you offer to have 'an ask round' at work to see if anyone has any suggestions of help? Of course you don't necessarily need to ask at work - you probably have a range of ideas, but your friend might feel better if it's you passing on advice rather than you telling her what to do IYSWIM?

I think you can only do this though if she specifically refers to what school are telling her, or if she asks for help/advice.

Has the friend raised any concerns about their child? If they mention the school saying stuff do the accept it or reject it?

I would want to know - especially if it made a difference to how the child was cared for. I would be heartbroken if my DC had got a diagnosis for something when they were older - I would blame myself for not noticing/investigating earlier and getting them support earlier.
If the mum has no experience of this particular disorder, she may well be clueless - I know I would have been.
You could say - " have you thought about having him assessed for X? These types of behaviours can sometimes be linked to . Of course, it's not always the case, but it might be worth having look at, just in case."

@dontdisturbmenow

I have professional experience of working with children and young people with certain SEN Do you have relevant qualifications too?

Ultimate, it's down to how you approach it. Let her know that from your experience, there some possible signs, but you ARE in no way suggesting any diagnosis at this time, just suggesting early interventions in case it could help.

I am highly qualified and very experienced. The one caveat, as I mentioned in my OP, is that I usually work with children who are a bit older. The things I have noticed would indicate classic presentation in a child in upper KS2 or older but this child is younger.

The question is not whether I am qualified to have noticed these things. It is whether I have a moral responsibility to say something, and whether it is ethical for me to apply my professional knowledge in a purely social context.

Several posters have asked if the friend has articulated anything.

They have said things like 'I am finding X really challenging at the moment / X's teachers spoke to me again this week'. They have not yet said anything like 'X's behaviour is becoming worse and I am beginning to wonder if it's normal / if there's something else going on'. I think I will wait for the latter comments before saying something.

Could you be vague but ask how they are getting on in school, coping with the situation currently in an open ended way so they can open up to you if they want you to know - I take it they know your expertise? I have done this and I've had friends very grateful but has to be handled tactfully and also remember that there's lots of reasons kids could have sen and it's easy to assume it's the one you are used to when it could be something different too

It's odd to me that most posters seem to think you should say something, but do so with a light touch, and yet you don't seem to have noticed these responses.

Your friend has commented on challenging behaviour. She has commented on the fact that school has concerns. It's really not clear to me why you wouldn't say something at this point. If you were an oncologist and your friend's child was displaying less-known symptoms of cancer of course you'd say something. In this case, a simple comment that this is a common behaviour trait of children with condition X and that you're not an expert on children of THIS age but you can certainly recommend someone seems like a no brainer.

You know her best. Is she realistic re her child's behaviour, personality quirks & abilities? As a teacher I had to tell parents of a child with moderate brain damage that he was really struggling socially, emotionally & academically. They were not ready to hear it. He didn't sociise with other children outside school so they had no comparison & were in total denial. They told my Head they were 'shellshocked'. However, a few months later he started refusing to attend school & the penny dropped. He ended up much happier at a moderate learning difficulties specialist school. If it's more than one minor thing, that could be dismissed as ' 'just a phase', I'd gently mention it.

I think you should say something OP

Yes it might backfire etc

But if early intervention can help the child then if you dont, your be putting your fear over losing this person's friendship, over possibly getting this child the appropriate help years earlier than they may otherwise. It might not be easy but I think it's the right thing to do, just because it might piss the mum off isnt a good enough reason not to at least try and help a child that may need it.

I would say something like, "you know that I work with children that are older, would you like my opinion?, you don't need to answer now".

Allow her the choice. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want the benefit of your professional experience.

Speaking positively is key though.

@billy1966

I would say something like, "you know that I work with children that are older, would you like my opinion?, you don't need to answer now".

Allow her the choice. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want the benefit of your professional experience.

Speaking positively is key though.

Hi OP, this is how I would suggest going at it too.

Maybe you could wait until she mentions something again about problems in school and then you could ask "what strategies have they put in place and given I work with older children who display these behaviours do you want me to suggest some things that work for them as they could work for younger children too?" Then you are planting the seed of SEN - and if she jumps down your throat (or even if she doesn't) you could say "well obviously because of my job I will see everything down the lens of SEN but it can't hurt to rule something out and in the unlikely event that you rule it in, early intervention works really well".

If you are close friends she must know what you do for a living?

I work with children who have SEN and have a close friend who's little boy had a lot of features of asd and was struggling. I offered advice when she raised concerns e.g. about speech delay, repetitive behaviours, sensory issues with food.

I tended to offer signposting e.g. have you asked to see a peaditrician? Have you seen this great book our speech and langugage therapists recommend? Or OTs in our team suggest this for picky eaters etc only when she raised possible asd did I then say I could understand why she was worried and again signposted places to get help. She hasn't been ready to pursue this yet, in fact lockdown has helped him thrive in a different way with school work, but she has all the info.

I would want a friend to offer thier advice if it was me in your situation but as Pp have said - some people don't want to hear it or are not ready to hear it.

I work with families post brain injury. The physical recovery can be very good but there are subtle changes which get more obvious with time. The physical changes are accepted and families often want help as you can see them and no stigma attached. The challenges with behaviour/ learning seem to be much harder to accept as families often seem to have a shame attached to them or feel they are some how failing which is not the case at all!

I would tread carefully, some people just aren't ready to hear it.

I am completely unqualified, however I have a child who was diagnosed (both privately and on the NHS) with ASD at three. Her needs are not very extreme, and she has no learning difficulties etc but she was struggling socially and it was picked up at preschool.

I have a friend with a child who is now three (she has older children too). I see so so many traits in this child, ones that I recognise clearly from my own and other children I have got to know since our diagnosis especially those that seem to present in girls and not so much boys (both children are girls). My friend struggles hugely with her child, she's always saying how 'naughty' she is. I was just to tell her to please start a referral because it's not naughtiness I see it's anxiety, dysregulation , a child who is overwhelmed by people/noises, and one who quite obviously has sensory issues too, especially with food.

But, whenever I've gently mentioned things that my child does/experiences as a result of her ASD which mirror exactly what this child does (in my gentle way of trying to point out their similarities) my friend simply says 'well that just normal child behaviour, your child does it and so does mine, they're all naughty aren't they!' Erm, no. But she's not dense, she evidently just doesn't want to hear/accept that there may be something more going on so I keep schtum now. It's not an easy thing to accept anyway, and if I'm right they will find out eventually.

If you work in that field and she is your friend...of course you need to say something! Imagine if you don’t and years later she is wondering why you didn’t notice the signs and you’ll be saying...I did notice the signs and could have helped but was worried I would offend you? You seem kind. Do what your instincts tell you.

@SpaceOP

It's odd to me that most posters seem to think you should say something, but do so with a light touch, and yet you don't seem to have noticed these responses.

Your friend has commented on challenging behaviour. She has commented on the fact that school has concerns. It's really not clear to me why you wouldn't say something at this point. If you were an oncologist and your friend's child was displaying less-known symptoms of cancer of course you'd say something. In this case, a simple comment that this is a common behaviour trait of children with condition X and that you're not an expert on children of THIS age but you can certainly recommend someone seems like a no brainer.

I have said twice that I am going to wait for an appropriate moment and say something. Precisely what more would you like of me?

@billy1966

I would say something like, "you know that I work with children that are older, would you like my opinion?, you don't need to answer now".

Allow her the choice. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want the benefit of your professional experience.

Speaking positively is key though.

This is perfect wording - I will remember this. Thank you.

@Stephenfrylust

I work with children who have SEN and have a close friend who's little boy had a lot of features of asd and was struggling. I offered advice when she raised concerns e.g. about speech delay, repetitive behaviours, sensory issues with food.

I tended to offer signposting e.g. have you asked to see a peaditrician? Have you seen this great book our speech and langugage therapists recommend? Or OTs in our team suggest this for picky eaters etc only when she raised possible asd did I then say I could understand why she was worried and again signposted places to get help. She hasn't been ready to pursue this yet, in fact lockdown has helped him thrive in a different way with school work, but she has all the info.

I would want a friend to offer thier advice if it was me in your situation but as Pp have said - some people don't want to hear it or are not ready to hear it.

I work with families post brain injury. The physical recovery can be very good but there are subtle changes which get more obvious with time. The physical changes are accepted and families often want help as you can see them and no stigma attached. The challenges with behaviour/ learning seem to be much harder to accept as families often seem to have a shame attached to them or feel they are some how failing which is not the case at all!

This is brilliant advice. Thank you so much.