To not comply with my dad's paranoid request?

[Xley90]

For years my dad has been interested in some things others may find strange such as certain conspiracies but to be fair he's always given a good debate on them and has never gone as far as flat earth so I've just put it down to him having too much time on his hands. He's currently in hospital from complications of a recent surgery, he's had a positive covid test now he's in hospital but has no covid symptoms luckily.

He's only been texting me sporadically while in hospital, initially he would reply to me when I asked if he's ok but since his positive test he is mostly was not replying - totally ignoring my messages asking if he's ok, so I've been checking in with the hospital for updates.

Yesterday he started saying that the ward he was in was awful, that he could tell me stories that would make my hair stand on end and that he wanted me to contact his old nurse who was looking after him (from a few years back, at the same hospital) and ask this nurse to 'check it out'??!! He's suggesting the hospital don't want to let him go and want him to die there.

My question is, am I being unreasonable if I won't 'ask the question' of this nurse? He's obviously scared and anxious, when i've replied to him that another department won't get involved he just begs me please to ask the question. I obviously don't want to ring this department and sound crazy myself but don't want my dad (even if he's in a deluded state) to think i don't care and make him more anxious.

I was thinking about just ringing the department and letting them know he's told me he has an appointment coming up with them (he claims he does) and he wanted me to let them know he's in hospital so can't be contacted (telephone appointment). That way I have kind of done part of the request which I think is reasonable but I feel uneasy about lying to my dad to say I've asked them his bizarre request. Torn between lying or refusing and him thinking I won't do a simple thing that he claims 'may save his life'.

@Hailtomyteeth

When my mother was in her final illness I visited her in hospital daily. It was absolutely clear to me that the intent of staff was to move people on to the next life! It's quite possible your father is observing that. Please keep your eyes and ears open. If he's signed a dnr, they have his permission to drug him down and starve him to death.

This makes me so cross. Same thing happened to my DGM two years ago when she was in hospital with pneumonia. They were preparing for her to die and she over heard them whilst they thought she was a sleep. She was devastated. This is why she is scared to death of catching Covid incase she is taken back.

I’ve plenty of experience with elderly parents in hospital

Some of the staff are utterly brilliant.

Some are not.

I would look into this. He might be dehydrated, have a UTI etc but you won’t know any of this unless you investigate what care he is getting.

I’m really saddened by the dismissive posts on here. These are human beings that are not well and still need to be listened to and respected

Years ago, I was a nursing sister. I witnessed neglect and the eventual undignified death of an elderly lady, which I was not prepared to let go. I knew, that notes had been falsified and there was a lack of care. Whilst old and ill, she ought not to have died then and in such circumstances. I made a complaint. Staff were “backing me”. Nearly three years later, after much vilification and harassment of me, having my own standards called into question and having the RCN (Union) fight my corner, I was vindicated and received a full written apology. The establishment was put on CQC watch. One individual was sacked. Two more asked to leave.

My point is, if you see/hear something which doesn’t feel right, even allowing for dementia or the patient’s condition, speak up. Sometimes, you are their only voice.

Do you have any nursing friends or doctors who you could ask for their opinion on the hospital/ward and then (anonymously) pass their thoughts to him? That way you’re taking seriously what he has said.

I would also contact the ward and say he is really unhappy and you’re worried about him.

How old is he? I think you can take seriously that they are overstretched, not used to having so many patients without families helping to care for them and his care may not be the best, whilst not agreeing with the more conspiracy aspects.

I should add. The staff who were back ing me and prepared to give statements etc all but one, disappeared. I’m retired now and have have a very healthy lack of trust surrounding hospitals, lack of appropriate care and covering of tracks. As I say, many many staff are good people and professional. Some, are not. They ought to be called out.

OP, I wonder if PALS could help?

www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/nhs-services-and-treatments/what-is-pals-patient-advice-and-liaison-service/

Perhaps it'd be reassuring to you OP to know that delirium and confusion is actually the most common symptom of covid in elderly and frail people - there was a study on it recently -

covid.joinzoe.com/post/delirium-phe-update

It sounds like your dad is suffering from this, especially given he's had a positive test back. Don't feel guilty about not pursuing his confused worries (another sign is that he can't articulate what might actually be wrong about his ward). Just try to reassure him whenever you chat and speak with his medical care team about how he's doing. He's in the best place to be taken care of and hopefully will be feeling a lot better soon.

Some people have literally died due to poor care on dysfunctional wards.
Just because your dad is paranoid doesn't mean he may not also be mistreated/neglected by staff.
He's probably just stressed and confused, but I wouldn't dismiss his fears so lightly. A second opinion could help.

I'm concerned that many who are responding are taking it for granted the OP's father is paranoid in his concerns about the ward. I had two Uncles die in Stafford hospital at the time the wide spread abuse was going on. Patients were being denied water and were drinking out of flower vases (permitted then) . If there is a degree of neglect then delirium and general dis;orientation can follow due to untreated infection or dehydration. It probably won't help to call the old nurse but I think a call to a the head of the trust or CQC would be a good idea. When my father, not yet quite an older person, was diagnosed with lung cancer and in hospital he said that there were people with other conditions behaving in a totally disinhibited manner, so he couldn't sleep or think properly. I work in care and the organisation I work for has sent in care assistants as more or less permanent visitors (pre covid) to be certain the patient concerned had good food and was cared for properly.

How long ago was his positive test?

Presumably he can't go home until a negative one, so it's possible that all he is hearing is "you can't go home until..."

Just reasons/excuses to him iyswim.

And he may have seen some awful things or think that he has, so although I wouldn't contact the nurse, I also wouldn't completely dismiss him.

@CharlottesComplicatedWeb

My experience of the NHS recently (just prior to COVID19) and her subsequent death, left me reeling. I have never experienced such shambolic “care” and witnessed things which I could hardly believe (restraining elderly patients, starving others). I complained. Have heard nothing in the way of reply, due to Covid taking over everything.

I am a former, retired nurse of many years.

I’d say, listen to your dad. What he is saying may seem outlandish but, he may be telling the truth.

This. The level of “care” my dad experienced on a rehab ward was absolutely appalling. He was quite literally suicidal after about four days. It ended up with my pushing hard for his discharge which was facilitated by an assistant director of nursing who urged me to complain. The standard of care for older people on some hospital wards is shocking.

My experience of DF, DMIL and DGMIL being in hospital was appalling in all 3 cases. (DF in one hospital which was put into special measures not long afterwards and other 2 in a hospital in the neighbouring county). The standard of care for the elderly, IME, is appalling. It took 2 years to get a proper letter of apology (not the 'I'm sorry you feel like this' bollocks they usually roll out) from the head of the trust regarding my DF's 'care '.

I would always take note of an elderly person and what they say about hospitals. Even if he is suffering dehydration, delirium or a medication or lack of sleep-induced psychosis, it is better for your father to feel he has you to advocate for him, if necessary.

I have seen some really rubbish care going on in various wards in my area. There have been nurses who vary from thick to downright nasty. Doctors who don't seem to understand patient confidentiality. One Doctor came to a patient's bed and starting discussing medical issues without checking who the visitors were. One was a neighbour. When the Doctor was in full flow the relative said we will discuss this outside then the Doctor had the cheek to enquire who that relative was to the patient. Too little too late. Another Doctor gave pills that he was already told would cause a severe allergic reaction.

I would definitely make strongly worded enquiries into the information given to you by your father OP.

I am greatly concerned about patients being in hospital without visitors to advocate and if necessary take action on behalf of their relative. Please take your father seriously until it is proved that there is a problem causing confusion. If it is infection or medication causing his confusion one has to be cured and the other has to be altered.
Your poor father.

@CharlottesComplicatedWeb
Well done for sticking your head above the parapet. You are a fine example of the kind of staff I want to see in hospitals. I only wish there were more like you.

I will, in particular, never get over how they treated my dad.

I would contact the old nurse, express your reservations to her and let her decide what to do.

Please. Don’t do this.

Divert the conversation away from the nurse to ‘describe to me exactly what you can see happening Dad’.
Hopefully he will give you more information.

Some Drs can just be so oblivious can't they?

My PFB was very prem.

The consultant came to see me the next morning & said "well, you won't be having any more will you?"

WTF?

My mother after heart surgery went completely bat shit crazy, Accused the lady opposite of trying to kill her ! And when the Nurse was on a drug round , wearing a tabard stating she was not to be disturbed , that she was dealing drugs !
She kept ringing my father and texting us all to come and get her , we flagged it up to the ward and they moved her and got it sorted, we all laugh about it now .
Definitely ring the ward .

Agree with a lot of pp. Look up delirium in older people, then talk to the hospital.

Listen to your dad and get it checked out. I habe experienced an awful lot of appalling "care" from nhs hospitals over the years. My grandfather and elderly residents in my old care home job were neglected to fuck in hospitals it was horrific to watch. When i myself was in hospital last year my "care" was none existant and i was treated terribly and neglected to the point the paramedic and 2 drs told me they were shocked by how i was being left. When i asked dp and family to get me out they all told me it was a good hospital and the bad stuff was in my head until 3 days later on my eventual discharge they all admitted they were shocked by my stay. Your poor dad, its not nice not being believed in these situations.

It sounds like he's scared. Lots of conspiracies floating around re Covid - could he be thinking he doesn't have it and the Hospital are lying to him?

Seen a few people suggesting the government are bumping people off in hospital and saying it's Covid to try to scare the public into complying with their 'New World Order' or some other utterly ridiculous bollocks. Does he fall down rabbit holes this bonkers?

Of course you can't approach a medical professional and ask them if there is a conspiracy going on with patients! (Can you imagine??!!) but lying might just ease his fears a bit so I can see why you're tempted.

I've been unable to get through to his favourite nurses department now anyway so i have text him to ask him to let me know exactly what is going on so i can go to PALS. I hope that makes him feel like i am taking him seriously but taking a more appropriate approach by raising any concerns with PALS instead of some poor random nurse

Please don’t dismiss him.

My family dismissed my concerns when I was in hospital. It ended up in legal action against the hospital and I now don’t speak to the family who told me I was crazy.

Bad things do happen in hospitals. I’m a HCP myself; I’ve seen it.

It’s good that you’ve gone to PALs.

Have you spoken to the ward at all OP? If he has tested positive for covid I imagine visiting would be only be in very exceptional circumstances, but could they organise a facetime type of thing ? It might be easier to assess the situation if you are looking at him when you are talking to him iyswim ?

The nurse is unlikely to remember your dad and also ne too overworked to think about investigating anything.