To say she has missed a real opportunity ?

[PinkAndFabulous]

Niece got made redundant recently. Been in the job many years and was devastated. She also has a chronic illness and diagnosed with a second over lockdown but still not being properly treated for it. A job came up in her field which offered ad hoc and zero hours and was very near to her home. Its ideal for her. She wasn't overally enthralled when I sent her the link but did apply. She got asked to fill in an application form by the company meaning she most likely was close to getting the job but was put off by the health declaration especially as she was asked if she had any ongoing health problems. Long story short, she emailed the company to say she didn't think she should take the application further because of her health. Aibu to not know why she did this especially as most companies would have supported her as they should be doing?

I think it's more complicated than you understand... and I don't mean that I'm a condescending way despite how it comes across.

It's difficult navigating work and chronic illness. Someone's it does take over, it has to, it's a part of your life. You don't get an option. It's not giving in, or not fighting, or letting the illness win or whatever else is trotted out. I've done nothing today. I had physio yesterday to help myself, and I'm so sore today, I've had to write the day off. Not sure in a post physio way, but sodding hurting. That's not letting it take over, it's accepting my limitations. It's a minefield psychologically, sometimes it doesn't make sense to others. It's not an easy gig.

As someone with a serious chronic illness, it sounds like she knows her current limitations. The thing about chronic illnesses is that they often are debilitating enough that they take over your life. They rule what you can and can't do, sometimes it's constantly exhausting and sometimes you can be fine and all of a sudden have an episode. She is not 'letting her illnesses impact her' she is seriously ill with not 1 but 2 long-term health problems which may or may not have any chance of getting better at any point in her future. Not only is this physically taxing it's also mentally draining having to cope with all of this and find a way to get on with your life without people who are supposed to care about you minimising it and telling YOU how YOUR illness should affect you and how you should essentially stop being so dramatic about it.

Man people are so damn mean on these thread constantly, it’s so tiring to see. She’s your niece, therefore you love and care for her, therefore you are invested in her life. Is that really such a difficult concept for people to grasp?

You really can't do that OP, even if you do have good intentions. It's her life. She gets to decide what she does with it. Maybe she's a bit lazy and won't help herself. Maybe she's overwhelmed by her new diagnosis. Maybe, just maybe, she knows herself a lot better than you do and knew that the job wouldn't be right for her. Back off.

Most zero hour contracts are basically employees on demand. The employer expects the employee to be available whenever they need them. It's a rare contract that allows the employee to determine their hours.
I suspect you think she can pick her hours and you are wrong.

Yet you posted only a few days ago about how difficult it is for people who suffer from chronic illness to work, and find employment...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4047656-To-say-it-is-harder

What's your game?

And another one about your friend interviewing someone with chronic health issues...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4045605-To-think-friend-handled-this-badly

Hmm. Well spotted.

do you realise zero hours mean she is not guaranteed any work at all which could affect any money she already getting making it more of a hassle. 2 illness one which is not being treated properly and you still push her into seeking work. Mind your own business.

Aibu to not know why she did this especially as most companies would have supported her as they should be doing?

Er YES! YABVU and incredibly naive!

MOST companies do NOT hire people with chronic illness, disability or learning conditions

ESPECIALLY at the moment when it is very very much an employers market

Are you genuinely completely unaware of the widespread ableism in Uk society? Inc on the very site you're posting?

She got asked to fill in an application form by the company meaning she most likely was close to getting the job

Really seriously FAR from true, they want as many applicants as possible not least so they can "prove" they're not racist/sexist/ableist when in most instances they are

2. Adhoc hours "flexibility" is FAR more often especially now about companies wanting to be able to click their fingers and employees come running! while not actually PAYING them for essentially being "on call"

I know it's harder for people with chronic illnesses to get work

It's not "harder" it's practically impossible!

when many employers would make adjustments if they could see she was a good candidate

Please DO name the ACTUAL employers you KNOW will do this! Because in my experience even ones with awards for "disability inclusiveness" are pretty lax at doing so if it REMOTELY inconveniences/costs theme a penny!

Serious question - when was the last time YOU Job hunted? Because at the moment even without a complex medical history it's damn hard at the moment with widespread redundancies due to covid, major companies going bust and more of the same coming with a likely no deal Brexit

Honestly - go on some of the job websites where they show you how many applicants per vacancy on that site (and the same vacancy will be on other job sites, in papers and on the companies own website if they have one) and you will see in many places there are usually well over 500 applicants PER VACANCY sometimes up to or over 1000.

I don't entirely agree that employers will disregard a potential employee with chronic health issues either.

I DARE you to apply for a similar or even the same job declaring you have the same health issues and see what response you get!

My friends sister has to have infusions every 3 weeks and her employer is fine with it and she has a people facing role

That is but ONE anecdotal example where it sounds highly doubtful you know the FULL details.

Did that person apply for and get their job AFTER they knew they needed the infusions and time off etc or were they already an established and known employee? Likely with at least 2 years employment with that company meaning it would be fairly easy for her to sue them and win if she raised a case of disability discrimination?

2. Give it a rest with the "letting her illnesses take over" bullshit. It makes you sound clueless and lacking in empathy.

Totally agree

She’s just been made redundant, I’m sure she’s considering if her illness had a role in that.

Exactly! And her health may well have been a factor - even though it's theoretically illegal it can be damn hard (and expensive! No legal aid for this stuff now) to prove

Wow! And you're persisting in your attitude of "auntie knows best" you don't!

You are MASSIVELY minimising and dismissing the impact of her health on her life, it can be hugely frightening/depressing/anxiety inducing to get such Dx, it can be a huge adjustment to what you thought your life would be like.

I have severe mental illness, which I didn't expect or was able to prepare for, I also have a physical disability due to a car accident that wasn't my fault and has required SEVERAL adjustment phases, my Dd has a genetic disability that wasn't dx until she started high school and has meant her life isn't how she envisaged or hoped for...

Maybe try learning more about her conditions and read personal experiences by those who suffer from them to try and gain some insight and learn to sympathise and understand more effectively than you do currently.

I've spent a lot of time explaining to relatives and others WHY dd can't "just x y z" because doing those things would land her in hospital (again!)

Explaining to people (inc hcps unfamiliar with the condition) why I can't "just try x y z" as it could potentially land me in a wheelchair far earlier than necessary

Dd and I will both possibly become wheelchair bound in the future - different conditions - and we're following specialist advice in order to delay/avoid that eventuality as long as possible.

Funnily enough I also have an aunt who seems to think my/our health issues are possible to "work around" in various ways, she has zero medical knowledge and has only ever been in hospital to have her dc!

Most zero hour contracts are basically employees on demand

Yep!

Aah! Interesting so what's ops real agenda ?

So she's got one chronic (long term) ongoing illness.

She's been diagnosed with a second chronic illness.

You say she's not being treated properly for either.

A friend of hers has just died.

We're in troubling times even without all the shit she's getting.

If you ask for an application form they send one.

Is it a public sector role? If not, no way will they hire someone with significant health problems and lots of appts. I mean unless it's a really specialist role that very few people can do.

Even if public sector, disability can get you and interview. But they don't have to hire.

You seem to have little empathy and no idea of how work, well, works.

"Of course, none of my business, just don't understand it and do feel she is letting her illnesses have too much of an impact"

It is NONE. OF. YOUR. FUCKING. BUSINESS.

Not "none of my business, I just don't understand...". None. Of. Your. Business.

Was the job actually something she would want to be applying for? A certain member of my family has a great line in "helpfully" sending me links to apply for "little jobs" that would "suit your health problems" that are significantly junior to what I actually do, or just totally irrelevant. It's incredibly patronising and you sound like you have no idea what it's like to be disabled in the workplace.

I have had to come back to this thread because it made me so angry.

Do you actually realise OP that in "wondering" this you are in fact putting an expectation on your niece to explain to you why she can't just do X, Y, Z? Perhaps it will make her seriously ill. Really it's got fuck all to do with you.

I suspect from the posting history that others have uncovered that you are being goady and want to turn this into a "well she didn't apply for this "reasonable" job so she doesn't deserve benefits does she?" thread.

She doesn't owe you a fucking answer.

As for the posters who have said "oh you care for you, you're invested in her life". She has clearly decided this job is not one she wants. Being pushy about it beyond that is just really fucking rude, surely?

Butt out

She doesn’t want a job. In the moment, any job is good - its not the time to be picky. Her right obviously, but if she moans I would leave the conversation.

You’re pushy and also, it’s not very nice op is it? What does someone actually gain from saying something like this apart from making someone feel shit?

Sure you saw a job that would help her and passed the details on, I see that as helpful. That is where it should have ended. You now seem to be going OTT about it

I would now step back and leave her to it

@IJustWantSomeBees

Man people are so damn mean on these thread constantly, it’s so tiring to see. She’s your niece, therefore you love and care for her, therefore you are invested in her life. Is that really such a difficult concept for people to grasp?

Is it really such a difficult concept to grasp that you can love and be interested in and concerned about someone and still respect the fact that they know best when it comes to managing their own life?

Sounds like she did miss a good opportunity. I know it is frustrating seeing people make what you perceive as a 'mistake' but you have to let people make their own choices.

It could be the redundancy has really hurt her self esteem. You hear so often that 'it's the role that is redundant' but it doesn't feel that way. It can really hit you hard.

YABU, naive and unkind

@PinkAndFabulous

I know she's had a tough time and her ex colleague died the other week which doesn't help matters. I still feel she has turned down a good opportunity but like she said, she emailed them and explained why she was not taking the application further. Reason being, she was concerned about the amount of time she would need to take off due to her recent 2nd diagnosis. She said to me if she gets no reply which she is not expecting to, then she has her answer as to how they would have dealt with her health as an employee. I'm not sure I totally agree but it's her choice. I just felt she would have loved the job and been able to balance that and her health at the same time. But as I said, her choice at the end of the day. Even if I don't understand it.

if she gets no reply which she is not expecting to, then she has her answer as to how they would have dealt with her health as an employee.

Well she's set up a situation where the outcome is very likely to be what she expects here - an email withdrawing from a job application process would usually just be accepted by the employer. It would often just be read by an administrator, and the response wouldn't necessarily reflect how they would have dealt with her health as an employee.

YABU. It's none of your business. It was nice of you to think of her by forwarding her a job that you thought she'd like, but what she does beyond that it up to her. Leave her alone.

Most employers have some kind of health declaration people need to complete at the start. I wonder what she intends to do for work if that will put her off applying?

Who are you to say what an ideal job for her is?

Who are you to decide how she should be managing her illness?

I’ve read this exact scenario before, posted by the employer who was apparently feeling guilt over the redundancy. Including the death of the colleague.