Can a bad marriage turn good with work?

[Livelifejoyful]

Is it possible for a bad relantionship to turn good if you both want to work on it? Problems being mainly toxic arguments.

I think it depends on the reasons and the circumstances. If you are both under stress it might be understandable. If it's always been like this I think it's unlikely to change. You could try and unpick what the route cause of the arguments is. Can you resolve it or move past it?

I'm hoping so. We love eachother dearly. But have got into a bad habit with arguments and the way we speak to eachother. We have sat down and come up with a plan going forward on how we will improve this, generally through having a deeper understanding. Just wondering if it's possible to change a relantionship dynamic after 3 years together.

I think need more context to say. I think communication problems are something that can be resolved. If at least one side is feeling contempt for the other, then it may be beyond saving - I've heard that's the real relationship killer. Sounds like there is hope for you guys if you do really care.

Yes absolutely but depends what is causing the toxic arguments.

My dh & I I'm embarrassed to say but we had a terrible relationship with even violence ( mainly me to him)

In my defence I think it was caused by a mix of the tablets i was on and terrible PMT and a lot of stress from family and no money.

I came off The tablets, my PMT improved. Over the years the stress has reduced ( not gone). We have three kids and I manage my temper a lot. I have outbursts but much more controlled and shorter. No violence.

I often read MN comments saying leave to women that have been in a similar position to my husband but not every relationship is black and white and I am so grateful my DH stayed with me and we made it work. I can't wait to celebrate our 20 year wedding anniversary on a few years and lots of people didn't think we would make it that long

20 years together now and we have a great relationship and we are very supportive of each other. Very 50:50 when it comes to housework and children. I think we are very lucky that we have worked through problems and I hope my kids have not been exposed to my terrible behaviour.

Maybe with a lot of hard work and counselling. Good luck

it depends on the circumstances but yes provided both partners are willing to work at changing.

I'm not sure what having a deeper understanding means but each of you need to have self-control about what you say, how you say it and your tempers. Angry people who feel the need to be right and want, in the moment, to hurt their partner verbally might need to do more than kid themselves they love their partners.

Good luck.

Honestly, unless there has been a particular trauma illness, miscarriage, bereavement which has been a trigger and can be addressed, its a no from me.

When you get to the point where your interactions with one another are "toxic" there is no point. It's only worth being in a marriage if it supportive and life enhancing. Why would you want to live with someone who makes your life toxic?

Once contempt enters a relationship its game over. You may be able to get to a point where you are civil or functionally tolerant, but who wants that?

Out of interest why are you not leaving? is it kids?

Absolutely but it depends on the reasons for the bad marriage. Both partners need to be equally committed to change. If one person is trying really hard while the other is not giving a fuck, then there won't be a happy ending.

Yes of course. I found it helpful to have a trained third party therapist have some input. If you both want it to work, it can work.

With counselling.
You’ll need to unpick what your actual issues are and work through them. People without issues don’t argue.

Yes. People can turn these things around, but it isn't a sure thing even with the work. It partly depends on the underlying cause of the problem.

What we want to say in our brains and what eventually makes it out of our mouths can be completely different things!

A really good exercise is for one person to say something and the other to say "I heard you say X and I understood by that that you meant Y - is that correct?"

That gives the first person the chance to think about what they've said, and either affirm or change their words or the meaning behind their words. Then take in turns, without rushing.

It's a clunky mechanism to start with, so it's good to practice with neutral subjects, but it can really deepen understanding of each other communication styles.

If you BOTH want to change the way you interact then it may be possible. If one of you is resistant to change then it will be impossible, as the dynamic comes from both sides during a toxic argument.

DP and I have had some humdingers over the years and it erodes the love. After 8 years I feel that we’re actually getting worse, not better, so I’ve told him I’m not prepared to carry on like this. I’ve been reading a lot from the Gottman Institute about contempt and the implications on a relationship.

They can predict with 90% accuracy which relationships will last based on the presence of 4 things - criticism (which is different from complaints), contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. If those things are present you’ll most likely divorce. All 4 of them show up in our arguments and I’ve told DP we need to eliminate them to stand any chance of surviving.

I’ve bought a book called Eight Dates which is a series of conversations to have with each other to try and build a more understanding and respectful bond. Fingers crossed it helps, maybe give it a try. There’s lots online if you search Gottman Four Horsemen

I think if both of you have insight and are willing to reflect unflinchingly on your own behaviours then yes maybe. Look up Emotionally Focused Therapy. It may be the right approach for you.

I second what SarahLou says too - sometimes DP will say something and then notice my face change. He’ll say “what did you hear when I said that?” And I’ll reply what I inferred, which is generally not what he meant! We all bring our own baggage to a conversation and recognising that things get lost in translation is useful.

Yes, my son and his partner had toxic relationship ending arguments all the time so they went to counselling and now never argue. They've managed 10 years now but have to stick to the counselling rules.

Yes if both people are working equally hard, and usually with outside help.

Not if one person's idea of work is to keep doing exactly the same thing, apologise, blame the other person a bit and say they will try harder next time. Rinse and repeat.

I love the idea of asking the other person what they heard after you have said something. I think this will be really beneficial for us, so thank you. Will also check out the other recommendations.

Our issue is just communication when it comes to things we are both heated about, and we've just got into a bad habit with it. Other than that we don't have any issues, I do think we both need to rear in our tempers and become more conscious of what we are saying in the moment and have more patience and a deeper understanding of what works for the other person. For example I've said to my DH tell me how I should behave or what I should say when I am upset or angry at you, that will then make you acknowledge how I'm feeling or what I'm saying without becoming defensive and taking it in the wrong way. And vice versa he has asked me. So we are really working on overcoming this, as if we can, there honestly isn't anything else to complain about. But if we can't, we both know that a divorce will be inivtable. We both want to work on it so that's a good sign, it's not just one of us. Nice to hear of those that turned your marriages around for the better! Well done.

@MarkRuffaloCrumble

I second what SarahLou says too - sometimes DP will say something and then notice my face change. He’ll say “what did you hear when I said that?” And I’ll reply what I inferred, which is generally not what he meant! We all bring our own baggage to a conversation and recognising that things get lost in translation is useful.

I do this with my DP and what a difference it makes.

Depends how bad it is but I do think more thoughtfulness, empathy and respect can make a big difference. And humour and kindness Over the years DH and I have learned to disagree more respectfully and our arguments are fewer and much less toxic. I started thinking ' would I speak to a friend like this' - realised I would be ashamed/embarrassed if I did and that was quite a wake up call.

Our marriage was awful after one late MC, then 2 babies with a 12 month age gap.

I started taking antidepressants six months ago and all of a sudden life is harmonious again

@tortillachipsanddips it's great to hear you've turned it around. I've been with DH for over 20 years, married for 9. We have two DS, 4 and 1. I have PMDD and used to take medication for anxiety although I over that now. I returned to work from mat leave a month before lockdown. I found looking after my children and working so incredibly stressful and he hardly helped at all. The resentment I feel has been hard to shake off. We've been having the worst rows we've ever had. I do worry that our relationship won't survive. I go from 0-100 in rage and I just don't know what to do. I don't get like that with anyone else.

I think poor communication and habits can be but I’m not sure about true toxicity, for example name calling, contempt, lack of respect.

Also if it’s problems with someone’s actual character then it’s unlikely.

Only if it genuinely is both of you. If one of you wishes it would be better and the other goes through the motions the, no, it won't get better.

No, move on to a healthier relationship that will make you happy. Toxic arguments will drain any joy from your life.