AIBU to Think MNHQ needs to tackle the ageism on this site?

[LastGoldenDaysOfSummer]

The venom and hate aimed at older people on some of the Covid threads is disgusting. If the same was aimed at disabled, TW or BAME people then the posts would be deleted immediately, and rightly so.

But because it's the elderly it's left to stand, even after being reported. This isn't new, MNHQ has always been a hotbed of ageism but it's usually dealt with when reported.

But not any more. Should they be doing more?

No it isn't.
Whining that your freedom is being curtailed because of "a random dementee dribbling in a dirty nappy who only has two years left, is" which is a synthesis of the ageist comments on the Coronavirus topic, is.

@TheSeedsOfADream Is your comment in response to me? If so, do you think there is no increased risk in being pregnant in your 40s as opposed to your 40s (for e.g.)

@TheSeedsOfADream' the quote you made is horrifying. Today, so called Care Quality Commission report that those undefended vulnerable victims with learning disability are abused in care homes. (Duh..Whoever would have guessed that power corrupts?)

They didn't even bother to check what happens to undefended vulnerable victims in segregated care homes where the powerless are sub-human,( nobody would be silly enough to think they have Human Rights,) because they are old.

Still, our English Parliament do at least care about brutality to animals. The three nations don't have c.c.t.v. in slaughterhouses, but, proudly, England does. They know perfectly well that the animals will be badly treated, despite the vet permanently on the premises, without that c.c.t.v. (Old people in care homes don't have a doctor on the premises, and when care homes are ordered to admit covid carriers, to protect hospitals, they can't even get a g.p. to visit.)

Many, many of the carers are absolutely brilliant and kind and do their level best. The same goes for hospital staff. Except the minority, who can and do, literally, kill or maim. Whistleblowers Will Be Shot is the effective policy in health and social care, even more than other areas of civil service, so never be ill, and never be old, and never be undefended.

Baroness Cumberledge, (who is old) after her report was published recently, advised (on radio 4) people should do as she now will, and avoid all contact with N.H.S. unless there is a witness/advocate present, preferably recording the encounter.

Excellent advice. The NHS treatment my parents received in their last couple of years was abysmal - and that was with me fighting for them like a tigress.

*It may be unpleasant but it is true. If you have a baby at 45 the risks of the child having a disability ARE much higher.

And it isn't much fun having a very elderly parent or parents when you are in your teens/20s. I do think people should consider this.*

My children will be 18 and 20 when I turn 60, maybe I should have left them to rot in the care system rather than inflict them with “elderly” parents.

If you can’t see why “it’s not much fun having elderly parents” is ageist, there’s not much help for you. It’s perfectly fine to acknowledge the increase in potential risks in pregnancy for over 40s - though every parent I know who conceived over the age of 40 had healthy babies. It’s not ok to suggest that over 40s mums are too decrepit to be fun.

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

Please spell out exactly how each and every boomer is removing wealth and opportunity from those behind them?

I am talking about that group as a generation. Let's see. That generation would have been the people steadily dismantling the public sector since the 80s. Steadily dismantling employment rights. Cashing in on Right to Buy and privatisations of publicly-owned utilities. The generation that oversaw the great leap back into private renting and buy-to-let that had been dismantled by the earlier generations, which is causing widespread poverty everywhere. The generation that has welcomed huge levels of immigration from everywhere, which reduces wages and increases our population and pressure on the infrastructure they have dismantled.

And finally, that is the generation that have taken us out of the EU and removed our EU citizenship rights. So much to thank you for.

And as they die they will pass that wealth to their children and grandchildren. Who will of course refuse to accept such tainted assets .........

When you are talking about a generation please remember that you are including in it the people who did not support Thatcherism, and who far from dismantling employment rights fought hard for equal pay, maternity employment rights and the equalising of pension rights (much good that has done for the women strung up by successive governments but still) .... Yes, I grant this is a generation who did have some advantages eg university Grants, but at the same time mine is a generation where a university education was actively denied to many, particularly those who were women, people of colour or working class,- w hy do you think the OU has proved so positive and experience for older learners - and where certain professions took pride in restricting entry by women and other groups. I’m not even going to mention sky high mortgage rates, oops, or remind you about legislation re access to abortion, the legalisation of homosexuality , improvements in health and safety legislation and the many other social and legal improvements to life that us boomers have brought about.

I am however going to challenge your nasty little racist sentence about immigration because it is fundamentally untrue on all its points.

And I also challenge your assertion about Brexit , first of all who the hell do you think voted the UK Europe in the first place and why did we do you think? And secondly, in my experience it wasn’t boomer voters who voted out.

[quote FTMF30]@TheSeedsOfADream Is your comment in response to me? If so, do you think there is no increased risk in being pregnant in your 40s as opposed to your 40s (for e.g.)[/quote]
Nope. To the poster saying that stating biological fact isn't ageist . Which it isn't.

[quote 20mum]@TheSeedsOfADream' the quote you made is horrifying. Today, so called Care Quality Commission report that those undefended vulnerable victims with learning disability are abused in care homes. (Duh..Whoever would have guessed that power corrupts?)

They didn't even bother to check what happens to undefended vulnerable victims in segregated care homes where the powerless are sub-human,( nobody would be silly enough to think they have Human Rights,) because they are old.

Still, our English Parliament do at least care about brutality to animals. The three nations don't have c.c.t.v. in slaughterhouses, but, proudly, England does. They know perfectly well that the animals will be badly treated, despite the vet permanently on the premises, without that c.c.t.v. (Old people in care homes don't have a doctor on the premises, and when care homes are ordered to admit covid carriers, to protect hospitals, they can't even get a g.p. to visit.)

Many, many of the carers are absolutely brilliant and kind and do their level best. The same goes for hospital staff. Except the minority, who can and do, literally, kill or maim. Whistleblowers Will Be Shot is the effective policy in health and social care, even more than other areas of civil service, so never be ill, and never be old, and never be undefended.

Baroness Cumberledge, (who is old) after her report was published recently, advised (on radio 4) people should do as she now will, and avoid all contact with N.H.S. unless there is a witness/advocate present, preferably recording the encounter.[/quote]
I confess my sentence was a mix of the things I've reported over the last few weeks...for transparency:
"For some random 80 year old with dementia"
" A dementee sitting in a dirty nappy"
And "only two years left to live" are examples of different but real posts. The latter is often used as a reason why there should be no further lockdown.

On a fair number of threads I’ve come across posts on the lines of “This woman, she was probably in her mid 60’s just reached into my pram and held my baby’s hand.”
I'll never forget this charmer
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2977192-aibu-for-getting-annoyed-with-random-old-women-in-the-main-getting-up-in-my-baby-s-grill?pg=2

Absolutely @viques.

Another particularly unpleasant example on a thread that's still running:

There is something very perverse about destroying so many people's livelihoods, children's eduction, and many people's mental health to give people over their four score and twenty a few more months of life. We don't do it every flu season.

They probably think they're being really erudite and insightful. No, they're just a vile, callous individual.

You're absolutely right, OP. Anyone 50+ seems to be written off as irrelevant. Ageism is rife in our society, too.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince - I had my second dd in my early 40s too and my first in my (very) late 30s. I think for me it was much better having them at this age and I’m a much better parent as I’m more financially secure and emotionally ready. But it’s an undeniable fact that mothers over 40 (as a group) are more likely to have babies with disabilities. It’s not ageism just fact. But both my dds are not disabled and also lovely children.

to give people over their four score and twenty a few more months of life.

Wow I didn't realise only 100 year olds were being protected.

A glimmer of hope is this thread.

I was becoming quite disheartened to think I was living in such an unpleasant society - one where contempt for older people and semi support of eugenics is the mainstream view.

Thank goodness it's not just me who finds these views unacceptable.
It's good to see a thread speaking out about it.

mother's over 40 (as a group) are more likely to have babies with disabilities
What's until very recently been largely overlooked is the role played by the father. Recent research has found that babies born to older fathers are more likely to have certain disabilities. It's new research so there's much to learn but it's been suggested that possibly the father's age makes the most difference, and that older women who choose a younger man will have healthier babies.

Whether that's the case or if it turns out it's both parents age that increases the risk, I bet most people will continue to focus on (and blame) the mothers.

What strikes me the most is the hypocrisy.
People are castigated for smoking...because it shortens life expectancy...but then they're faced with a barrage of 'why should we do this for an 80 year old' and 'their pensions/social care costs are high' etc etc.

Along the same lines. People calmly and earnestly talking about how 80 year olds won't get Covid healthcare if the NHS is overwhelmed (during another Covid wave) and how they think that's the best option for society over containment measures (they ignore the risks to younger people, i.e. Long Covid)...Yet there's outcry at the suggestion of legalising the humane assisted suicide that some other countries allow.

That dementee in a dirty nappy could be someone’s much loved parent or grandparent.

And so what if they’re not!

The moderating on this site is disgraceful. Almost every day when I log on, some thread in my watched list or I posted on list is removed. Almost every single day. At least one. There is almost ZERO need to delete ANY threads or posts, unless the post is libelous, promoting illegal activities, or racist. I have been on many, many boards and forums, and most of these rarely if ever delete anything. Here, you sneeze the wrong way, your post is deleted. I've never come across a forum where the mods are so delete-happy that they're deleting entire threads every day, usually for no reason at all! It's ridiculous. If you don't like the words a poster uses you should be able to (as you are able to everywhere else in 2020) block that poster. But 99.9999% of the time threads and posts are deleted is completely unjustifiable and had no real true reason justifying the deletion. And the mods actively encourage posters to dob in and report, thus it's a mob mentality and the person can get someone's post deleted out of spite. This forum while being quite helpful, is immature, spiteful and delete happy to the extent I have NEVER seen anywhere on the internet before. For example, troll-hunting. WHO CARES if the OP (not this thread's OP, saying generally) is a troll? Who gives a s-t? It's not that serious, and shouldn't be. This is just a message forum. If you think the OP is a troll, just exit out of the thread. Problem solved. There is no reason to report them, unless they are posting porn or something. @HebeMumsnet Please look at changing the moderating policies, because the fact that posts and entire threads are deleted every single day on the most flimsiest of reasons is a disgrace and you will turn people off this site. Other message forums have almost nil deletions, and for very, VERY SERIOUS reasons such as promoting something illegal. That's how this site should be.

Ugh, sorry about the wall of text, I should have used paragraphs.

@PhilSwagielka

That dementee in a dirty nappy could be someone’s much loved parent or grandparent.

Exactly.

And one who has probably paid a damn sight more into the system over the years than the average eugenics promoting MNer.

@Jellycatspyjamas

My children will be 18 and 20 when I turn 60, maybe I should have left them to rot in the care system rather than inflict them with “elderly” parents.

My DDs will be 18 and 21 when I turn 60. That's perfectly normal for adoptive parents of course.

I didn't choose to be that old; my DH and I went through four years of TTC, including two cycles of IUI and one cycle of IVF. Then we had to go through the process of applying to adopt and then have our DD1 placed with us at age one. The whole process took seven years.

Yes, we're old enough to be my DDs' grandma, and I often wish I was ten years younger, but that's just how our lives panned out.

I will have a 17 year old when I am 60. My mum was the same age when she had me.
Was I embarrassed by her being older as a child? Definitely not.
In terms of my dds I would like to think that I have a young outlook and have alway taken them to concerts etc. Age for me isn't a barrier.
Even from a medical viewpoint my 3rd pregnancy in my forties was better than my 2nd. Better screening results etc etc
Age has nothing to do with your ability to parent. This applies both ends of the sprectrum. There are amazing teen parents out there too.