To think visors don't count as face coverings?

[pequini]

We signed up for a puppy training class indoors. The instructor is actively encouraging people to not wear masks and wear visors instead. Surely this contravenes the guidances as we know visors do bugger all and don't attach firmly around the side of the face?

No they are not a substitute. In scotland you need to wear a mask too if using a visor

I agree. But I can see why for puppy training it might be better to have your face visible. I would assume you are all social distancing too... .

Correct - visors do bugger all as your exhalations go straight round the sides. Only useful to prevent splatter going into your eyes.

I would be sending my regrets and asking her to transfer my booking to classes which have the normal covid safety standards.

Cancel your class. As others have stated, visors are not useful. They are only good for stopping droplets getting into your eyes. Spend your money elsewhere, on a trainer that actually cares about their clients health. I work in a supermarket up in the North West, and so many people wear them, I wish our company would ban them but they want their money, don't they? I saw someone today cough while wearing one, and it left a big wet mark on the screen. They're disgusting.

Is it compulsory to wear a mask in that sort of setting now? Here’s the list...

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

I can understand why a puppy training class would want faces to be visible.

In daily life spaces where social distancing is possibly most of the time, it's better than nothing especially for those who can't wear masks, but in a class where you're going to be together for a while, I'd wonder why it's being encouraged. Is it so the puppy can see your face?

Yanbu, don't go to the class.

Masks may well be around for a while so best to develop ways of communicating with our dogs while wearing them.

They're fine in a puppy class with using distancing from people

The dog needs to hear/see you clearly

YANBU. Visors do nothing so may as well just not bother.

I don't see why. Dogs' vision is really quite poor, and it's more about sound.

And if you look at the list of venues, in the link, I think it's seriously unlikely that the class would be in a building not on the list. And if there are over 5 clients, then it would fail the rule of 6 as well.

If outdoors, with social distancing between the humans, then no face covering needed. And better to say that than spout bollocks about visors as if they were in any way adequate

I help out at a dog training class. On a normal year..... classes would have moved indoors now but we are still holding classes outside and they are still well socially distanced. Our instructor will run less classes this winter because there is less demand to be outdoors at this time of year.

I can appreciate that puppy will be able to read your facial expressions better with a visor than a mask but unless there is only a handful of you in a massive hall I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

We use visors for school..... they do nothing

it's better than nothing especially for those who can't wear masks

It really isn't. Unless in an environment where one expects splash/splatter hazard to the eyes. It's entirely useless for anything else.

And if there are over 5 clients, then it would fail the rule of 6 as well.

I don’t think the rule of six applies here. Gyms can run larger classes than that. Surely this is similar.

There are pages of gudance about this (e.g. Kennel club and CFSG)

Class size is not specified - it says it is up to the rules in the area (presumably to avoid having to update for each time it changes!). There is no automatic read across from gyms.

It is extremely clear that it should be outdoors if at all possible and indoors must be at least 2m spacing at all times

It’s completely useless as a face covering and can only protect the wearers eyes.

But you can’t tell people.

Would this then be a breach of the guidance? This will be indoors in a small village hall. Part of the training is walking/running in a circle as we teach them to heel so surely we are all going to catch it if one of us does.

We got them at work initially but were subsequently told they weren't suitable and didn't count.

Yeah visors do nothing as droplets can escape (around the side, down the bottom, over the top etc.)- I'd cancel!

There is growing evidence they actually are worse than nothing due to forcing a jet of apart downwards forgeable. Article I read in medical journals about them being particularly bad if to are higher than someone else eg working with kids. Put me right off!

Breaching the guidance isn't really a meaningful term. Guidance is optional. And unless you're in Scotland, legally visors are face coverings just as much as masks are. That said, you're the customer and you're in charge of where you spend your money. If you don't like the instructor's behaviour, vote with your feet. And say why.

Probably so dog can see your facial expressions.

I work in veterinary care and we have to wear masks along with our visors. The masks to protect others, and the visors to protect our eyes.

I actually find it more difficult to spot subtle changes in expression and posture while wearing a visor as I can't see as well. I would much prefer to wear just a mask.

Dogs' vision is really quite poor, and it's more about sound

Dogs vision is pretty much equal to human vision and they can read a lot into humans facial expressions

They may as well got used to masks then!

Hearing and smell are the domininant canine senses, way outstripping human levels.

They will get clues from their humans from things other then movement of the lions (a very, very minor part of communicating with dogs)

Village halls etc, according to the guidance linked above, are places where masks should be worn. The young dogs may well be accompanying their owners to places where masks will be worn. Fortunately, just like young humans, masks aren't an issue especially when they have been life long in a mask wearing community (ditto other facial coverings)

I know the first thing in finding good puppy classes is finding a trainer who is good with dogs, but puppy classes are alsomabout training the human. I know I wouldn't be comfortable with someone riding roughshod over the current guidance, and would query or cancel, and seek a better class