High Earners on MN?

[BitOfFun]

How? The actual leader of my county council doesn't earn more than £100K- where and what are all these super-maxed out occupations? I genuinely don't understand how mumsnetters (often relatively young) access these magic jobs I've never heard of.

YABU- they are there for the taking, you just made poor choices

YANBU- people here are very creative and there's an outside chance they may be lying exaggerating.

@Ploughingthrough it’s complex. On the one hand i suffer from anxiety but on the other hand two of my strengths are my ability to compartmentalise and my resilience.

So I get very anxious about things like driving in the car or about the dcs being late for something or about the health of the dcs and dh or being a good mum.

However, because i am able to compartmentalise, my stresses are generally contained. At work, i can take decisions with multi millions at stake and be very calm about it, that doesn’t make me anxious at all. A lot of my value at my level is about my ability to keep calm and make a good decision. In an odd way because my perspective is that as long as my family are okay, then nothing is ever that bad, I can be at my best. Barely a day goes by when someone isn’t telling me that something has gone pear shaped, but I can’t afford to get anxious or catastrophise, so I don’t.

And the more senior you get, in one sense the easier it is because you get measured more on your output than your input. It’s the journey to get to that point that’s hard and exhausting.

Women are generally much more capable of juggling and have the resilience to do it than they give themselves credit.

Sorry bit rambly but hth!

@DrCoconut

What I find confusing is the number of threads where people talk about their high earnings, giving the impression that the demographic is wealthy. Then you get the threads about things like people shivering in wooly hats and coats rather than switch the heating on which tells the opposite story. Something doesn't add up.

What exactly doesn’t add up?

I’m not a super high earner but I’m highly paid for my profession and I’m focused on my end goal and how to get there. I did take a massive step back when my kids were younger and took a really junior role on about £16k, less than I earnt as a new grad.

I think I’ve realised what motives ME to move forward and much of it is that I have a very low boredom threshold. I have never stayed with a company for more than 4 years, I move and I move to make it worth my while: I take risks in my career. I don’t get hugely stressed about work, I’m confident in what I do and I know that I am good at it. By being in a senior role I am more profile, because I’m more high profile and not many people do my job, I’m past the recruiters and at the level where the big headhunters know me. I know what’s on the market, I have a list of organisations I am interested in working at. I’m quite clear with headhunters who contact me what I’m looking for and I’d be 90% certain that most of those will want to interview me. And with that comes money. They’ll pay me well because there simply aren’t a massive pool of people who can do the job and hit the ground running.

I probably want to do another couple of years where I am, I certainly don’t expect to be there in 3 years. Today I was contacted for a job which was a pretty good fit and £35k more than my current salary. That doesn’t bother me. I’ll probably not persue it as I’m not ready to move but I have confidence that something similar will come up. I’ll know when the time is right as I’ll either have itchy feet and be looking for a new challenge and i don’t feel risk is a gamble; it’s part of moving on to the next thing

CarolineBingley thank you, not rambly at all. It's actually so interesting to learn about the working mindset of a high earner and I think it makes a huge difference to ones ability to be that high earner. At the moment I feel that dealing with the next level of responsibility would be something I would find too hard, but actually I feel quite inspired to apply for promotions after reading this. I'd actually love to earn a bit more as I want to save more for my kids future, and it is my mindset rather than my ability holding me back. I probably wouldn't get to 100k in my line of work but I could earn a fair bit more than I do.

I don't actually find my job stressful exactly because i have 3 dcs. By the time I'm on a 9am call I've already been up since 6 herding 3 moody dcs to get dressed brush their teeth, usually will have physically forced at least one to get dressed and will almost certainly have been having a domestic dispute the whole way to school over why there are no tangerines and providing tissues to whatever child this has reduced to tears. By my call at 9am nothing can be worse than that 3 hour window of hell on earth.

I think I'm good at compartmentalising and dissociating, which helps me just ignore the peripheral noise / work politics and just do my job. Having kids has also improved my ability to very quickly assess a situation, strip it down in my head to what's important and then not worry about the rest. I'm also the sort of person at work who can have those excruciating conversations and not come across as bothered in the slightest.

What i do suffer from is imposter syndrome. I've now got a high profile at work and am knocking on the door for c-suite. Deep down i have no idea why i think they would even consider it, nor why they pay me the amount they do. But I'm good at hiding that bit.

I am

I should add, for full disclosure, i suffer from bad mental health, have done since a teenager so not caused by the job. In my current "high earning" role I've had several nervous breakdowns and 3 bouts of severe post natal depression. Oddly, none of this impacts my job. Must be a coping mechanism.

You’re welcome Ploughing. When looking at the home/work juggle (or actually anything work related), I have found it helpful to have an attitude of everything is solvable. And that’s made me creative around how I juggle.

What I also found helpful is to look at every role as having a 3 or 4 year cycle with a beginning, middle and end. Year 1 feels bloody scary where you feel at sea - the trick is to find people you trust to help you through this bit, both at home and at work. Year 2 and 3 is where you properly find your feet and are good it and year 3 and 4 is where you could do the role in your sleep that’s when you know it’s time for a new challenge whether it’s an additional role, promotion or new job. I am currently looking at a new role in which the responsibility is in theory terrifying but my opinion is that it’s always been done by blokes and there was nothing “special” about them which makes them any better than me so i am going for it. If I show any weakness, than I will lose out to a more outwardly confident man who wouldn’t be necessarily any better than me at the role.

My experience of mentoring and managing both men and women is that women typically struggle to look past year 1 and so don’t take risks, whereas men don’t even see the year 1 issues they go straight through to year 2 and 3 in their minds. The other thing is that when women get into year 3 (the comfort zone) the idea of doing year 1 again is terrifying and off putting (especially with young children at home) and so they tend to stay in roles longer than they should.

I really hope you go for it - thinking of that first year in a role, the mumsnet saying “this too shall pass” definitely applies but honestly, you can do it.

*Ferris" ah yes, the 3 hour window of hell on earth! (One reason I didn't collect children from school over the years as you often get them at their worst and then have to get them through homework, dinner, bath)...... It is slightly easier in taking them as at least it is first thing. We tried to divide it between the two of us in the mornings.

I used to joke that sitting at a desk is a walk in the park compared with say my Sunday mornings at one point - their father is an organist so was always out then - working time for him.... so I would be there trying to do the cleaning (because I worked all work although my husband did more cleaning than I did) but with a new breastfeeding baby, a 2 and a 4 year old at one point - hardest bit of our lives. Work was easy by comparison.

@FerrisB

I should add, for full disclosure, i suffer from bad mental health, have done since a teenager so not caused by the job. In my current "high earning" role I've had several nervous breakdowns and 3 bouts of severe post natal depression. Oddly, none of this impacts my job. Must be a coping mechanism.

My husband has had significant issues with depression and anxiety all of his adult life. He’s had breakdowns while on his high-pay-high-stress job. He figures that’s just how he’s programmed and he’d also breakdown if he was in a low-stress job, so he may as well earn well while he’s at it

@Ploughingthrough I doubled my (already high) salary in just over a year through a good work move. Before that, I thought I would carry on with pay rises of a few k each year but never substantially increase my pay. So never say never!
For me it wasn’t about the money but about being respected and valued; being seen as someone who could progress and who was being developed. I was getting none of these things at my previous job and I was utterly miserable and felt awful about myself. I love my new job! Totally not true that more money means a harder life. Sometimes it just means you are being paid properly and not penalised for being a woman/mother etc etc (as in my previous job).

Could I briefly hijack this thread to ask the high earners’ advice on something? I’ve been offered the role which should be a career pinnacle (company director) but the salary is underwhelming at 25% lower than others in the same role.

I have asked for financial information for the company in order to make my decision and, although I knew times were bad, it’s far worse than I thought. I may not take the directorship for this reason alone- the personal and reputational risk is huge.

But if I do take it- how would you negotiate a fairer salary given the poor financial position of the company without appearing mercenary?

Thank you!

@Sunshineismyjam

You have a lot to think about before you get to salary negotiations? Why is the company in poor financial state? Is this something you can turnaround? Because unless the answer to my first question is obvious to you (and transparent in the financial info) and to my second question is a resounding yes then you need to think very carefully due to the personal liability you will carry.

@Sunshineismyjam I would be very cautious about taking the position if the company is in a bad shape.

There is a phenomenon called the Glass Cliff, where a woman gets put in charge of something just as it is about to fall apart, and then gets blamed for it and it affects her career.

It is thought to happen because the male competition for the job all back off, because (being men) they have a greater range of options and don’t want to take the risk. Women take the risk because of historically reduced opportunity.

NB that doesn’t mean you would only be getting it because of the company’s situation, just that you are more likely to take it and suffer reputational damage than a man would.

Thank you @PegasusReturns and @TheLastStarfighter. I didn’t make it clear in my first post that this is a promotion within my current company so I was offered the role recently and then told the salary offer last week.

The turnaround point is complicated and is why I’m inclined not to take it. The other directors know what needs to be done but the shareholders who provide funding won’t allow it. So I feel that the board doesn’t actually have autonomy and so think I will politely decline for that reason as well as the personal liability position.

It’s harder that it’s my current company, though, as I get on very well with the current directors and I know they’ll be disappointed.

This is all about value. I think it would enrage me to do something and get 25% less than a man for it. They simply wouldn’t ask that of a man, they would have more respect. You need to value yourself enough to think ahead as to what you can get out of it. And women tend to undervalue themselves so whatever you think you’re worth, top it up.

So personally, I would only take it but in 2 circumstances: 1) I am planning to stay - so I would negotiate a water tight incentive scheme which also locks in pay rises tied into the company’s turnover or 2) having this title will enable me to do the role for 12 months and then walk into a role in another company. Either way, I would use them like they are clearly trying to use you by undervaluing you!

Men, never worry about being thought of as mercenary, so neither do I, otherwise I would under value and therefore under price myself in the workplace.

@Ploughingthrough
I have realised as I became more experienced that I know at least as much as my male colleagues sometimes more. My ideas are as good and my work of a similar standard so I have as much right to be in my role as they do and to be paid the same as them.
Everyone makes mistakes in their job, you only have to look at the cock ups big companies make to realise that senior people are not infallible.
As long as I have done my job properly then I can accept that I can’t eliminate the risk. Properly does not mean perfectly, just to an acceptable standard.

@CarolineBingley thank you for your comments. I know you are right: I need to stop undervaluing myself and think like a man would.

This thread is fascinating. When I started out in work 30 years ago I didn't know any woman earning £100k plus and now I know several.

I trained as a doctor but for various reasons ended up moving into public health and, right from the start, I loved it. Over the years I've worked in local government on shit pay, charities - also on shit pay, the civil service and as a special advisor in government (not this one luckily!). I've also worked for international organisations and has worked in Africa, Australia, Switzerland and Germany.

The pay has varied over the years, but in the last decade I've consistently earned around £100k a year and there's still a part of me that can't quite believe it's true. I'm now freelance and taking it a bit easier - but covid has given me a few really interesting opportunities so I'm taking on more contracts so will probably earn about the same next year.

My teenage daughter wants to be a vet nurse, specialising in physio therapy and hydrotherapy. I'm secretly pleased that she wants to specialise because it will stretch her a bit more than just a normal bet nurse job (I realise that's clumsily written and so apologise to any vet nurse out there). She's bright, but don't think she's got the drive to go into something like the tech industry and as I've just gone from one job I'm interested in to another without really thinking about a career path, I can't really preach!

I'm Irish and Dh and I are both what I would term high ish earners. He is 100k and I'm 85k but cost of living here is high too.. we take home about 8kish between us
Mortgage is 1700
Childcare is 2000k
2 cars 800- (two decent commutes )
Kids activities 500.
Groceries 1000
Electric / bills etc 500

We're absolutely comfortable but I definitely don't feel 'rich' by any stretch of the imagination.
We have a take away every weekend and do holiday twice a year but don't have loads of savings.

Wow 500 on kids activities! What are they doing? (Sorry just being nosy)

Lol re activities . I've three boys and they do a lot between them including

Rugby
Hurling
Basketball
Piano
Gymnastics
Guitar
Tae kwon do
Swimming
Tennis
Dance
Scouts

I know it's mental abs next year I'm absolutely putting my foot down that half them have to go! 🤯

Only read last couple of pages but so many of the comments resonate with me.
I’ve made lots of mistakes including taking one role where I was simply set up to fail. Another role where I stayed too long when I had young DC for fear of disrupting my work life pattern. So many others. I left a company last year where I was already on over £100k. I left without another job to go into but landed something similar on 20% more. I feel I am being paid now what I should have been at the old place but I never asked.
I had no idea what I was worth or capable of.

I'm not a high earner though if I play my cards right I could be. DP and I are 25 and our household income is currently around £98k. I work in national media, he's a financial data analyst for a big company that everyone's heard of. Having googled we are in the top 5% apparently including the equity on our London flat.

He is on track to earn £100k p/a before he's 28. My industry doesn't allow that but if I dip my toes in a few areas I'm building a network in, alongside staff wages, I could be on a very good income eventually. We chose different paths but both have multiple degrees and professional qualifications. It was a slog - working full time and hours of study in the evenings for both of us for several years. Anything you're afraid to do or put yourself out for isn't an option - you force yourself to do it. We've both sobbed on the phone to eachother in loos many many times.

We hope to be on £200k combined by 35. It could go wrong, of course, but that's the goal.

It's very possible if you're given opportunity, I'm not stupid enough to think our parents didn't guide us and give us legs up even though they're all working class, and you need to have the luck of ability, support, ambition and good MH behind you.

You can’t compare high end salaries with local government salaries-local govt has never been massively well paid, but has traditionally been quite secure, so it’s a bit of a trade off

Also realise that I sound like one of those people who sees their partners salary as their own. I don't, but we work together and I've only been out of my training scheme less than a year and am above national average. So I'm working on it.