Kids snacks at school - white carbs twice before lunch

[prettyflowersinthesky]

DD is in y4.

I seriously don't want to be "that" parent so am wondering on the consensus on this.

DD's school has started giving the whole school's kids stodgy white carbs with jam twice before lunchtime (bagels).

Once when they arrive in the morning, and then again at break time.

DD is coming home with most of her lunch uneaten.

I fully appreciate about food poverty and that giving the kids food in this blanket way is a way of addressing that without singling out or embarrassing hungry children or families.

But I question

1. Whether or not the white carbs plus jam is appropriate nutrition
2. Whether or not most kids really need this
3. Whether or not two snacks between breakfast and lunch is excessive

There is no requirement for the kids to take and eat the snacks but to say to my child not to take them when the other kids are seems unfair.

I'm a bit torn, and certainly don't want to deny hungry kids access to food. But also wonder if the school needs to give this twice and also maybe the nutritional content of the snacks could be improved (e.g. fruit, whole grain snacks or something instead). I do appreciate that kids need more carbs than adults.

What does everyone think? Is this appropriate? I feel for the vast majority of kids without food poverty issues this is not necessary, so by serving all the kids a snack it is enforcing bad snacking habits, poor food choices as well as encouraging childhood obesity.

In many very healthy countries no snacking is allowed although I appreciate for very young children it may be necessary.

I am wondering whether or not to speak to the school about my concerns about them finding a better way to address the issues for the hungry kids.

But I do not want to speak up if I am seriously misinformed about all of this, hence interested in your responses. Thanks.

Yanbu = this is not appropriate / YABU - give the kids the snacks

I was just about to say YABU about carbs but reading your whole post YANBU, definitely not.

I’m very laid back about food in general, I probably let my children have too many treats but this is very unnecessary, what example does that set to children and those parents who are perhaps struggling for money - don’t worry just feed your kids sugary shit all day!

Perhaps it's a cost issue. Perhaps the school are getting bagels donated. I know afterschools favour toast as loaf can picked up for 50p and feed class with 2 loaves

I'm not in any way unbothered about my kids' nutrition but this wouldn't bother me particularly. The school will have reasons for wanting to give this, they will have children who are hungry and need filling up/energy but they won't have extra staff, equipment and facilities to be cooking and serving a wide variety of middle class breakfasts and they will want the intended recipients to actually want to eat what they're offered. Toast or bagels can be served in kitchen roll so no washing up is needed. Fruit is not as filling and carbs are not evil.

If you don't want your child to have it, ask her to not have it. Please don't talk to her in terms of white carbs and multi grains... Just tell her she's had breakfast already and doesn't need it twice.

My DC eat breakfast at home, the childminder's, have break at school and have lunch.. They eat good quality, organic and free range etc at home which is the majority of their intake so I'm quite relaxed about the rest tbh.

You sound hysterical. I can guarantee if you are feeding your obsession with 'white carbs' and obesity down to your child it will have a much bigger negative impact than one fucking bagel a day.

@ReeseWitherfork

White bread isn’t bad. It is fortified with vitamins. The main difference between white and brown bread is the lack of fibre in the former which can be made up with fruit and veggies. I concur that too much white bread is a bad thing, just as too much of anything is a bad thing. So definitely adjust what you’re feeding her and all should be fine.

Wholemeal bread also contains a lot more sugar than white, to combat the bitter taste of the wholegrain.

I agree with you, OP, but unfortunately you seem to have attracted the Mumsnet wolves and are now experiencing a pile-on.

I also think that two sugary snacks before lunch sounds excessive and unhealthy and will contribute to poor eating habits and obesity. By supplying them to all children, school may be "reducing inequality" but they are doing so by reducing the diets of all children to the lowest common denominator, which I think is a mistake. And I know your DD could say no, but how many 8-year-olds are realistically going to turn down a sugary snack that all their friends are tucking into?

Perhaps the bagels should be laid out before class begins and parents who are unable to provide their children with breakfast can drop their children a little earlier (along with children attending breakfast club, so no stigma) and they can eat then.

Good for your daughters school. Food insecurity has quadrupled since COVID started and many families are struggling.

Also what about the kids who are not getting breakfast due to parents having substance misuse problems, domestic violence, mental health difficulties, all the kids out there who are young carers and don't have time for breakfast? I can't get worked up about those kids having a bagel and jam.

Depends on the quantities tbh. It is highly unlikely to be a whole bagel each, probably no more than a quarter. In which case provided she is as active as she should be, and eats a balanced diet (which can include carbs throughout) it shouldn't cause an issue.

YANBU
I hear you. My children get all this sugary and deep fried stuff in after school club everyday. Yes, I told them to get one portion only and stop at that, but sugar is addictive and the culture of eating it everyday seems normal for them now. Not really helpful, is it? Next the dentist will spare us a lecture of how children are allowed to eat sweets only occasionally and the national weight screening program will write letters of how it is important for children to stay healthy weight. They only thing that keeps my children within normal weight is that they are extremely active...but my DD is at 85 percentile for her height/weight already. And yes, I am trying to keep only healthy food at home. Still don't see how the jam sandwitch is the best option to offer children.

Wholemeal bread also contains a lot more sugar than white, to combat the bitter taste of the wholegrain.
Well I didn’t know that, every day’s a school day!

Why the jam? I understand every now and again as a bit of a change but what’s wrong with butter? It just doesn’t seem necessary even if their primary concern is children who have gone without breakfast!

@howmanyroads small habits add up. I am not a controlling parent at home when it comes to foods. We discuss healthy habits but certainly not obsessively. I allow carbs, snacks, treats, as well as the usual healthy foods.

Two jam bagels a day, five days a week for every child every week of the year may have health impacts for a lot of kids...

*most weeks, not every week!

Tbh I think YABU - this is meant to fill hungry children, they shouldnt be deprived because your child cant say no to snacks she doesnt need.

I cant see them giving the kids a full bagel (top and bottom) at each sitting, I imagine they are getting half for each time, so they're getting a bagel a day if they eat both snacks, and how is that any different to the children who have toast and jam for breakfast?

Is it the highest nutrition? No, but it is meant as something easy, cheap, quick and filling for children who otherwise might be going hungry outside of their FSM. Additionally, when you have kids who just need food, it is best to provide something you know they will eat eg bagels/toast over things they may not eat eg fruits.

Rather than trying to regulate the school's provision, you need to either tell your daughter not to take the bagels and provide an alternative snack or adjust the food you provide to accommodate her having the bagel at school.

The first bagel is a breakfast substitute so you can either give your DD breakfast at home and ask her not to have the bagel (or ask the teacher not to give her one if that is an option); not give her breakfast so she can have the "breakfast bagel" instead; or give her a smaller, lighter breakfast to accommodate the fact she will have the bagel too.

The second is a break time snack so again either allow your DD to have it and adjust her lunch so if she has the bagel put something else into her lunchbox in place of a sandwich (my dd loves cooked chicken strips with a dip or veg and hummus etc so often has them over a sandwich) and adjust how much stuff you put in the lunchbox to account for the bagel or provide a different snack for her to have in place of the bagel.

Honestly find this thread so upsetting even as someone lucky enough to be able to feed my kids. Good parents wouldn’t let their children go hungry? Really? You’re so lucky not to have the first understanding of poverty @CakeGirl2020 - pray it stays that way.

@CakeGirl2020

And what is Tesco is a half hour bus ride away which you can’t afford so you have to rely on the corner shop for what you can get? That’s the reality for many living in poverty

Ah and there’s the mumsnet what if they live miles away, what if they only have one leg, what if they don’t know how to make toast.

Well the parent, still wouldn’t let the child go to school hungry, A good parent, a loving parent would buy whatever they could get from the shop they could get too ( even if it was a packet of biscuits) an they would feed that child something, anything as the alternative is letting your child go hungry.

Ah, theres that mumsnet assumption that all parents are good parents, loving parents etc etc.

I went to school with plenty of kids for whom this was not true, kids of alcoholics, kids of drug addicts, kids whose parents not only hadn't bought food for breakfast, or dinner, but who weren't even awake early enough to make breakfast for their child.

One girl I went to primary and secondary with would come with a jam sandwich every day, from the age of 4 to 16, two slices of milk roll, scrape of jam, no butter or spread.

It wasn't until I was 14 and went to her home I realised they had no food in the house at all except milk roll, jam and ketchup - evening meals were chips from the chippy. As an adult I realise looking back her parents had alcohol issues and learning disabilities, they couldn't cook, they couldn't read, it was all they could do to get the kids to school and provide uniforms etc.

I'd like to think there aren't cases like her now, but this was only the mid 80s to 90s, not the dark ages. I suspect there still are kids like her and parents like hers.

As for the OP, just educate your daughter about making healthy choices rather than take away food from hungry kids.

I agree with @melj1213, adjust the home prepared food so she can eat what clearly wants to with her friends and it balances out

Well the parent, still wouldn’t let the child go to school hungry, A good parent, a loving parent would buy whatever they could get from the shop they could get too ( even if it was a packet of biscuits) an they would feed that child something, anything as the alternative is letting your child go hungry.

I’m very laid back about food in general, I probably let my children have too many treats but this is very unnecessary, what example does that set to children and those parents who are perhaps struggling for money - don’t worry just feed your kids sugary shit all day!

It's not the school's job to make value judgments about levels of parental affection, or to educate parents in nutritional choices. It's not the child's fault if their parent is lacking in loving feelings towards them or if their parent is lacking in the education or financial means to make sound nutritional choices.

All the school wants is to not have their children struggling to learn because of hunger. On their tiny budgets, they will be doing this the cheapest way possible. As others have said, they will need to do this in the most efficient way possible as well, because of the time constraints of the school day. They cannot cater for a plethora of potential allergies or fussiness. So yes, they will provide the lowest common denominator, cheapest to buy and quickest to prepare food.

It is up to every parent to teach their child to say no if they don't want them to eat it, and to provide an alternative snack if you want them to have one. The fact that parents lazily say they can't expect their child to say no to something, says more about their poor parenting skills than any lack of care on the part of the school.

Finally! Some sense!!

The school have obviously identified a need here. In the current climate of wholly inadequate budgets and staffing losses due to enforced redundancy as well as Covid, no school would be giving themselves hard-to-manage, cost-incurring jobs unnecessarily (every break/ lunch arrangement has to be planned in meticulous detail to be Covid-compliant). Fruit would be far more expensive to fill the same calorie gap. Have the school specified that it’s white bagels? Some schools use part-wholemeal bread products as their default.

If you don’t want your child to have bagels, that’s a conversation for you to have with your child. But please understand that there will be children who need something for breakfast and snack because they’re getting nothing at home, and bagels may well be one thing that everyone reliably eats without any allergy issues at that school.

You can control what you give your child for lunch. If carbs bother you, take them out of your child’s breakfast and lunch. There’s no law that says packed lunches have to contain a sandwich - if you want to send your child in with eg tuna salad, carrots, hummus and fruit, go for it.

You know all the parents who were shouting 'we need to think about the vulnerable children' when schools were 'closed', well this is the school thinking about the vulnerable children.

Everyone should read this: www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2013/09/14/a-girl-called-jack-by-cutting-welfare-lifelines,-the-state-is-the-abusive-parent/

Tell her that she needs to ask her tummy if it is hungry when it's bagel time. If her tummy is hungry it's fine to eat it. If her tummy is not hungry it's fine to say "I'm not hungry thank you".

:-) :-) :-)

Ah the grateful poor trope that is often spouted on these threads. Of course if a parent cannot afford to feed their child then something is better than nothing, but there is also a load of different foods that are better than 2 jam bagels, and it would also benefit them to have something more nutritionally balanced.