How to handle this? SEN child swearing

[WillowB]

DS 8 attends cubs each week. The last 2 weeks he has come home complaining that a child in the group has been swearing. After a bit of digging on my part, the child concerned has ADHD and behavioural issues. This week he apparently told another child to 'f#ck off you pile of sh#t'. I'm not particularly sensitive but to be honest I'm not happy about DS hearing this kind of language on a weekly basis.
DS says that the leaders have threatened a few times to send the child home but they seem to largely shrug it off.
WIBU to raise this with the leaders of the group. I don't want to be 'that parent' and I understand that this child may find group situations tricky but this just doesn't sit right with me.

I worked with a boy with Tourette's. He mostly had motor tics but would occasionally have verbal tics and swear. About 50% of people with Tourette's have ADHD. I wonder if the boy also has Tourette's?

His ADHD was diagnosed very early on but the Tourette's was only recently properly diagnosed.

Explain to him some people get their anger out differently.........the child is probably extremely anxious and using bad language as his get me out of here card.

This type of behaviour isn't unusual with some special needs, some kids are aggressive, some swear or do things they know are inappropriate to take them out of a situation they're not coping with. To assume there's some sort of crappy home background is extremely offensive when parents are often run ragged trying to give their DC some sort of future. These behaviours are worth working through........my own ds who as a young child would strip off his clothes as his get me out of here card is an amazing kind, emphatic young man now who can work through problems because he's been taught how.
Over the years we've had streaking, aggressive outbursts and swearing to contend with. We've had to handle those situations and deal with them all the while knowing we've got judgey eyes burning through our backs...........some even from other parents who have ASD kids too who would smugly trill my little Johnny wouldnt dream of doing that. Sadly a fair few smug parents got a massive shock when the little Johnny's of their world hit puberty and the hormonal changes and brain development caused the type of abusive and aggressive behaviour that they were neither equipped nor able to deal with. ,🤨

Regarding your son he's 8. And I'm sure he's able to know not to repeat it........I honestly wouldn't worry about it.

I would have to raise it with the group leaders because my ASD child finds swearing extremely upsetting.

some of them may have learned at least one swear word when they bit their mother on the arse, hard

I know I shouldn't laugh @BlackeyedSusan but One day that will be a story of your family's legend.

@Puffalicious totally disagree. ADHD only wouldn’t account for this behaviour. He must have something else going on in his life to feel like this. ASD causes anxiety so can result in lashing out, but ADHD alone, absolutely not. There must be more than just ADHD, such as ASD, anxiety, Tourette’s. There’s a huge misunderstanding in what ADHD is and this type of behaviour is probably due to comorbidities or environmental factors, not just ADHD.

As a parent of an ADHD kid I get pissed off at the label being misused to explain bad or aggressive behaviour. It leads to people making judgements about my child which are totally inaccurate.

ADHD may cause kids to struggle with impulse control or emotional regulation but it doesn’t make them aggressive without compounding factors.

Compounding factors = abuse at home or school (bullying for example), or another mental health issue (ASD, Anxiety etc).

ASD is not a mental health issue, its a neurodevelopment condition.

I would speak to the club leader.

My child's cub group has quite a few kids with additional needs (and a probably equal number of kids who are 'spirited') the leaders have worked really hard on clear, visual, behaviour expectations for all the children. Including the final option that they will call parents and get them to collect early, and lots of extra praise for those with SEN and it works really well.

@ShastaBeast I disagree. I have a whole family of adhders and they are all different. One of my children is hyperactive ball without a mean bone in his body, wouldnt dream of spilling wear words. My youngest also an adhder has a very bad temper and when things don't go his way he looses the plot, swears, stamps and throws things. Two children, both adhd, rasied in same household- displaying their adhd in different ways

You know what they say - if you know one child with ADHD (or ASD or other NDC), then you know one child with ADHD.

The chances are at 8 your child’s exposed to swearing in the playground on a daily basis, I wouldn’t be too precious about that.

What do you want them to do? Exclude the child who is probably more in need of the type of support and socialising than the neurotypical children whose parents want to complain about him.

I agree, what an excellent opportunity to teach your child about difference, social norms and how to accept people as they are. He could also learn to set his own boundaries “please don’t swear at me, I don’t like it”.

Swearing doesn't hurt anybody. If there's aggressive or violent behaviour, that's different but words can be ignored. You can't control the words your kid hears from others, you can only control how you teach him to respond.

Teach your kid that everybody's different and some kids have issues with learning or impulse control.

My son is now in scouts, yes if my son was in a group where swearing occurred more than a few odd words i would calmly speak to the leader in charge.

I see nothing wrong in doing so

I don't think swearing at at that level is universal for 8 year olds, I'm sure it varies but my dc didn't come across swearing routinely until they hit secondary school last year.
Aged 8 they really hadn't come across much and neither had their friends or classmates.
I know this because they all talked about what the F word meant and it became clear none of them knew.
You never heard them using any swear words. (This has definitely changed now!)

I don't think swearing at other people is okay because it is aggressive as well as socially unacceptable.

I would have a quiet word with the leader but also teach my dc to reply to the dc saying they don't want to be spoken to like that and it isn't ok to do so.

@ReneeRol I don’t agree that swearing doesn’t hurt anyone. It absolutely does. Even if it’s not directed at a particular person it can be uncomfortable when someone swears. My DS absolutely hates swearing and this would upset him. As an adult it makes me uncomfortable if someone is swearing at work in some situations. It’s inappropriate language for a reason and shouldn’t be ignored if it’s upsetting someone

Wow the ignorance on this thread!

My child has ASD and she gets upset (at just four and a half) if she hears a 'bad word' - not just swears but words like 'fat' and 'hate' and 'stupid' - words she knows aren't particularly nice when directed at people.

So she wouldn't swear because it's against 'her rules' and she'd be cross if another child did. A different child with ASD or ADHD (or other SN) would react differently or behave differently.

Because y'know all neurodiverse children (and NT children!!) are individuals with different needs, abilities, levels of understanding, etc etc.

A quiet word to the leaders wouldn't go amiss but expecting the child to be excluded would be unfair. Some children literally cannot help swearing, nothing to do with being badly behaved or poorly raised. Jesus.

I really dont care about swearing. I think it's more about what they're saying, shit head vs poo head, is one ok and one not? Who decided which words are swear words and which aren't? (It was the church btw).

I think it's better to teach him that there will people around you who say things you dont like, who speak differently to you and that's none of your business. If he tells you to fuck off then you dont need to accept that, but no one is too precious to hear the work fuck and if you go around the world feeling you have the right to censor people based on your own choice of language then you're the problem and will get yourself in alot of arguments with strangers.

For me it's about, what is the message they're trying to convey, is it acceptable? You can say abhorrent things without swearing. You can be racist, homophobic and be offended by the word shit, that doesn't make you the better person.
Go away vs fuck off, means the same thing, one is more emotional. It's more important that kid is taught to control their emotions and not be mean, rather than dont say the work fuck or shit.

Also, not particularly relevant, it may be autism related, I'm autistic I follow rules I believe in fiercely but not those I dont understand, uniform policies at school are irrelevant and i never followed it. I feel the same about the idea that certain words are swear words despite meaning the same thing as non swear words so I dont follow it.

Also, not particularly relevant, it may be autism related, I'm autistic I follow rules I believe in fiercely but not those I dont understand, uniform policies at school are irrelevant and i never followed it. I feel the same about the idea that certain words are swear words despite meaning the same thing as non swear words so I dont follow it

This sounds so much like my younger DS and you've worded it so well.

He has a very strong moral code and he sticks rigidly to the rules however his code and his rules may not be the official code and rules of whichever setting he is in at any given time.

My DS has asd and he has been give a detention for using the word crap, not in an abusive way, he just said something was a load of crap. I don't even think in the list of swearing that it is that bad. He says the whole school swears and it is largely ignored so he feels like he has been singled out. I have told him a lesson learned but I am secretly a bit annoyed because he is essentially a good kid who is not a trouble maker etc

Perhaps the strategy with this particular child might be to ignore his swearing totally.
I've got a primary school aged neurodiverse child who's got a fairly extensive vocabulary. And the ability to use it in context, although his style is usually to tell you to shut up. Challenging him on his vocabulary just fuels him, and is a pretty good way to provoke him into telling you to fuck off. The shock factor is what motivates him to swear in his case, hence why we ignore it

However, the understanding I have with my others is that I can't stop them knowing swear words, but I don't want to hear them used. For 2 reasons. 1, because their brother doesnt understand when it is and isnt acceptable, and 2, because for some people, swearing is offensive (including the MIL who would have a fit of the vapours). If you turn profanity into something that's absolutely forbidden and make a big deal about it, then it just makes it even more attractive in the eyes of children.

And anyway, isn't Scouts supposed to be an inclusive organisation where ALL are welcomed?

It's not just about the words though is it? "Shit I stubbed my toe" "fuck me, I thought you were going to throw that custard pie in my face" "fuck off you piece of shit" ... The latter is aggressive and threatening, the other two aren't.

No one is actually being hurt by this child - I think you're being a bit precious. Swearing near your son should not upset him, I think you being so upset by it is probably the reason your son is having difficulty with it. If you calmly explained to your son that some people behave differently and sometimes it isn't their fault so your son should just try to ignore those words (and understand that he isn't allowed to use them) then everything would be fine.

@HotPenguin

It's not just about the words though is it? "Shit I stubbed my toe" "fuck me, I thought you were going to throw that custard pie in my face" "fuck off you piece of shit" ... The latter is aggressive and threatening, the other two aren't.

But equally, it's not about swearing. A child shouting "GO AWAY. LEAVE ME ALONE OR I'LL KILL YOU" is aggressive, but they didn't swear. OP is focusing on entirely the wrong issue.

The child is telling someone to get away from him or to leave him alone, something he is within his rights to do. The method of delivery is off which shows he needs support around social interactions, it does not mean he is aggressive, abused, or bad.

@Gancanny

The child is telling someone to get away from him or to leave him alone, something he is within his rights to do. The method of delivery is off which shows he needs support around social interactions, it does not mean he is aggressive, abused, or bad.

Not necessarily. For all we know, this child could have approached a group of children and told one of them to fuck off - which he's not entitled to do. We don't know whether the child was behaving appropriately or not (if we ignore the language).