Would you still pay tax if you could get away with not paying it?

[Uneasyy]

NC for this.

My lovely friend is currently making thousands a week in a cash-in-hand job.

She’s happy, genuinely happy and living her best life. However she dropped into conversation the other day that she got no grants/furlough or anything over lockdown as she’s never put anything through the system.

I didn’t really know how to feel. On one hand it’s none of my business whatsoever, on the other - This situation has made me scared for our economy and future prospects and it’s made me feel uneasy about her as a person.

She said she’d lose thousands through tax and it would be pretty impossible for her to get caught.

So I wonder, if were 100% sure you wouldn’t get caught, would you still choose to pay tax?

AIBU to think that I still would?

Yes I would.

I’ve had three children and taken a lot in the way of medical care, tax credits, education for my children...

I value what my taxes pay for, and tbh I think a lot less of people that don’t. There shouldn’t be loopholes for rich people to pay even less tax either.

Ooh I think I’d feel too guilty not to pay at all, seeing others pay for it and knowing I wasn’t. But in all honesty if I could dodge a bit with no chance of getting caught I don’t know if I can be sure I wouldn’t do it.

@jasjas1973 and I couldn't careless about anything related to SA politics or their way of living. My mother albeit Dutch is coloured( mixed race although looks white blue eyes, blond hair, the lot which makes her An Afrikaner) Half South African half Dutch woman who married a German man! I have heard enough about gated communities and affluence or the lack thereof!

I am going to be completely honest here and say that I am feeling a bit hard done by having used no tax minimising schemes, employing a large number of people and not furloughing them despite probably being able to as the work is not there at the moment.

So tonight I think I would if I could get away with it.

At last, the road councellor is defined. Sounds like a great job!

Now down to business:

It's the fact that when you pay a significant amount on taxes and you are then entitled to nothing people still want to come for any penny you make!

What, EVERY penny? Is there a new 100% tax rate that I haven’t heard about? Tell us all about it!

The reality is that the more you make the more expenses tax wise you have.

Yeah, that is how income tax works. The clue is in the name. It is a percentage of your income. So the bigger the income, the more tax you pay. Who knew??

And if she is a high end escort - that’s not exactly a job you can sustain for your whole working life (at least not at the same rates).

I'm curious as to what experience in sex work you've had which has given you this opinion, because I've known many, many mature escorts and their rates vary as much as younger women. That's not to say that every escort would want to stay an escort for that long, but it's not uncommon.

Having said that she WILL get a nasty shock if she doesn't pay any tax or national insurance for that many years, but then so would anyone doing that in any job.

@FeminismIsForALLWomen

And if she is a high end escort - that’s not exactly a job you can sustain for your whole working life (at least not at the same rates).

I'm curious as to what experience in sex work you've had which has given you this opinion, because I've known many, many mature escorts and their rates vary as much as younger women. That's not to say that every escort would want to stay an escort for that long, but it's not uncommon.

Having said that she WILL get a nasty shock if she doesn't pay any tax or national insurance for that many years, but then so would anyone doing that in any job.

I don’t want to go into details but yes I have knowledge of sex work.

@Iamthewombat everyone knew that wasn't the argument. The question is would I pay tax if I could get away with it and the answer is NO! I am very aware about how income tax and corporation tax works for that matter. Hope that settles this.

What, EVERY penny? Is there a new 100% tax rate that I haven’t heard about? Tell us all about it!

There was no literal interpretation here aside from your own! But the reality is that those that pay a higher rate automatically support those in lower rates because this is how the system is and those on higher rates have nothing aside from from their savings and investments to fall back on when things get rough.

I would pay tax/ but if i could pay a little less ie. none on my bonus, then I would.
My bosses who earn shit loads and grew up on housing estates, made good and preach about Labour and pro poor pay a huge amounts to the likes of Deloitte to be tax efficient so fuck it why wouldn’t I.

@Brot64

What, EVERY penny? Is there a new 100% tax rate that I haven’t heard about? Tell us all about it!

There was no literal interpretation here aside from your own! But the reality is that those that pay a higher rate automatically support those in lower rates because this is how the system is and those on higher rates have nothing aside from from their savings and investments to fall back on when things get rough.

Pretty much everyone has to fall back on their savings if things get rough - regardless of the tax bracket you are in. And the majority of those people won’t have investments either. Presumably those on high incomes will have much more of a safety net and cushion than someone on 25k a year.

If you’re talking about people losing jobs and going on benefits, it’s actually really difficult to get anything out of the current government and those that do aren’t exactly living the high life. You’re also not entitled to benefits if you have a certain amount of savings.

I could get definitely away with on the self employed portion of my income (I'm PAYE on my contract work) as I could easily be paid cash in hand only.

I put every penny I earn on my tax return, because I quite like the concept of contributing to society and all that. (Plus makes getting the next mortgage a damned sight easier)

Well thousands a week cash in hand would be useless to me as I’d want to spend it on a house and car which clearly she can’t. Also how is she going to spend all that money now when many places aren’t taking card?

I think this is bollocks because most places don’t take cash for large ticket items now. If she pays it into the bank she’ll get caught.

No house, no car, no holidays. What’s she spending the money on? Drugs?

@Sparklesocks yes indeed I was talking about benefits and to be honest I have no idea about the process or how it works etc but I certainly know that we could never qualify. We don't qualify now for the minimal child benefit or any other benefits for that matter and we don't need them now gratefully so. However my argument is that even if the situation presented itself and we required government assistance we would never get it at least not for years. Yet we are in the high paying tax bracket. So what do people who work, and put into the system get out of this system when they need it?

Yet we are in the high paying tax bracket. So what do people who work, and put into the system get out of this system when they need it?

I ask again, is this a joke?

[quote Brot64]@Sparklesocks yes indeed I was talking about benefits and to be honest I have no idea about the process or how it works etc but I certainly know that we could never qualify. We don't qualify now for the minimal child benefit or any other benefits for that matter and we don't need them now gratefully so. However my argument is that even if the situation presented itself and we required government assistance we would never get it at least not for years. Yet we are in the high paying tax bracket. So what do people who work, and put into the system get out of this system when they need it? [/quote]
I would say that issue is not unique to wealthy people who fall on hard times - the current system is a nightmare to navigate for everyone! But your anger should be aimed at those that manage it, rather than those who have no option but to survive on it themselves. In theory if you were to lose everything you should be able to access government support to keep afloat. That’s why the welfare system exists. But it’s not currently managed in a way that allows that.

And currently you are in an enormously privileged situation. Based on your description it sounds like you’re family are very well off, very secure and very unlikely to ever need government assistance. You don’t need it - so why are you annoyed you can’t access it? You seem angry about a hypothetical situation you’re not anywhere close to experiencing.

However my argument is that even if the situation presented itself and we required government assistance we would never get it at least not for years.

If you have savings and investments to rely on then you wouldn't require government assistance though, would you? If people with £200 savings have to use that to pay their rent because universal credit doesn't cover all of it then why shouldn't you have to use your savings if you have no income?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you're talking like you think poverty equals laziness.

Struggling to think of a cash in hand job that earns that much money.
Even if she isn't declaring it on self assessment surely her bank will have flagged the deposits as odd? Especially in large amounts

@TeaLibrary

Struggling to think of a cash in hand job that earns that much money. Even if she isn't declaring it on self assessment surely her bank will have flagged the deposits as odd? Especially in large amounts

She’s a expensive hooker...

@Brot64 Well, if you really do know about SA, you should realise its not about politics but inequality.

Low tax take means less police, less welfare, less education, health etc... so you get a large criminal underclass who do not value their lives let alone yours.
With little or no police, you & your kids have no protection at all oh and there is no justice system either.

What a great way to live!

Your tax avoidance (in this country) just means those who have no choice ie PAYE pay more, is that fair?
You benefit from what makes a civilised society but have avoided paying in..... what does that make you? Smart aka Trump or a scrounger?
Its about the proportion of tax paid, not the absolute amount.

Yes.

Ah thank you for clarifying. OK on the one hand I dont think she should be evading tax but on the other hand I have huge sympathy to any woman resorting to prostitution. I'm sorry for the inevitable toll that this kind of work will take on her physical and mental health and I'm concerned for her safety.

on the other hand I have huge sympathy to any woman resorting to prostitution. I'm sorry for the inevitable toll that this kind of work will take on her physical and mental health and I'm concerned for her safety.

Did you read any of this thread before plunging in?

If you had, you would know that the OP confirmed some time ago that her mate is an escort, and you’d also have heard a former sex worker telling us that not every woman doing that ends up physically and mentally broken.

She’s a expensive hooker...

Sex worker is the non-derogatory term.

but on the other hand I have huge sympathy to any woman resorting to prostitution. I'm sorry for the inevitable toll that this kind of work will take on her physical and mental health and I'm concerned for her safety.

PLEASE stop making assumptions about sex workers and sex work in general. You have no idea what situation this woman is in (apart from being a tax dodger). I'm sure you don't mean to but when you make these assumptions you are contributing to the horrible and damaging stigmatisation of sex workers.

No house, no car, no holidays. What’s she spending the money on? Drugs?

Christ's sake it's almost like you're trying to spread stigma.