DS been asked to leave school due to low CAT score.

[omgitcantbetrue]

Just had a meeting with DS Prep school and I'm feeling so worried and anxious for DS.

He scored 92 average on the CAT test.
The teacher gently informed me this means he'll not manage to achieve above a C grade in any subject at GCSE. He's only in year 5, and I'm amazed they can make such predictions.
I was then informed that it's in his best interest to transition to a more gentle secondary school.
I don't know what I want really. Advice from parents in a similar position?
Are her life prospects totally limited? With C's only I'm assumings he'll never go to University. Which is fine. I'm worried for his prospects.
Do children who score 92 ever improve? How below average is this?
Thanks for reading

Sorry that should say a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15 so 92 gives a Z score of -0.53.

I am worried about this. The ISEB pre-test is essentially a form of CAT test too and it is being used 3 years before children are due to move schools to determine whether they are suitable.

My experience is that dyslexic children develop later. As such, I am fairly sure this ever-use of so called 'cognative ability' tests to decide where children can go to school, rather than examining their knowledge and skills immediately prior to changing schools, is a form is disability discrimination. I would like to see it challenged. I would like to see the ISEB taken to the cleaners for their involvement in a process that is both harmful and of no educational value.

I got a 94 on my CATs in 1996. I remember because my darling mother told me how under average I was and repeatedly told people I wouldn’t get 5 GCSEs.

I did. And AAB at A level. I have a masters degree from a good university and a professional job that pays well. More important than that is the first hand experience and knowledge that you should never judge a book by its cover.

@omgitcantbetrue this just shows why the 11+ doesn’t work. I suspect your DC’s school has said this to you, so you’ll move them as they are scared about results.

I’d move them, to somewhere more bloody supportive.

Uggghhh. This is classic prep school behaviour. Very common.

Is it necessarily a bad thing? No. It’s worth being informed now. You could go down the route of questioning the validity of the test- but on the basis that the teacher sees him every day too and so has an understanding of his ability, I would be inclined to listen to her. Yes, from a 92 (depending on what the CAT was addressing), he does fall within the normal range- which also equates to a C at GCSE.

(By the way, most schools don’t use letter grades at GCSE any more, which perhaps says how ‘in touch’ with educational changes and pedagogy the teacher is)

With dyslexia, education IS going to be harder for him. Yes, there are strategies that can be put in place, and allowances which can be made, but depending how dyslexic he is, he is likely to attain lower GCSE grades than his spoken intelligence would suggest.

Keep him where he is if he’s happy- but it’s worth looking at state for secondary. I don’t know the picture nationally, but in my area there is no question that the state schools have far better provision for SEN kids than the expensive public schools (and I work in one of those expensive schools). This is partly because they resource share, have better inspections, are more accountable, and have staff with teaching qualifications rather than PhDs in their teaching subject (only actually more useful at A-level).

The school will want the money in yr 5&6, but not someone they think will nit get good grades.
Definitely time to look at different schools.

I'd move him anyway if this is the school's approach.

They would have written my little brother off similarly, I imagine, when he was that age. He was also dyslexic. He has a good degree from a good university and a good job in which he sometimes gets quoted in Parliament and interviewed on the BBC news (I am in no way a ridiculously over proud elder sister, not at all), but aged 9 he was very much seen by school as never-going-to-pass-much.

This school does not deserve your son or your family's money!

i want to take him and move asap, but teacher pointed out that it might be easier socially for him to move in year 7, when many other children would also be moving.

Did the teacher also point out that it would be much better for the school if you paid fees for another couple of years and then left quietly, rather than leaving them with an odd space to fill in the middle of Year 5?

Year 5 is quite a good time to move as children tend to move away from previously established friendships. It also gives him time to get to make friends that he will move to secondary school with.

If you choose a selective school for a young child this is the risk you run.

The stellar GCSE and A Level results that keep them at the top of the league tables are not achieved by taking a regular group of children and performing some sort of magic on them. Anyone who can't keep the stats up runs the risk of being managed out before the end.

This thread doesn't show private education in a good light does it.

My child in y5 couldn’t read at all due to severe dyslexia and other undiagnosed issues. She just started her A levels after passing 8 GCSEs C and above. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Surely they should be supporting him and encouraging him, not asking you to leave! There’s lots of help children with dyslexia can get nowadays.

For me, The reason for leaving the school wouldn’t be because of predicted low scores, but because of the poor support!

I'd move DC to a more supportive school. DD was told her gcse and Alevel choices werent right for her (shes dyslexic and struggled with science though loved it) and she shouldn't bother to apply to Uni.
She changed tack, got a 2.1 in law and is now doing a masters!

Wow! Shocking. Imagine if state schools dismissed children like that?

Agh. I don't know how to answer you all individually!

I'm agreeing with the poster that they just want my money for a couple of years. This makes me very uncomfortable, like they don't have his best interests at heart.

It's meant to be a mildly selective school, not a hot house, so I do feel a little duped. I wouldn't have chosen a hot house for him, and thought he would be there for the entirety of his education. It's a terrible shock.

My dyslexia went undiagnosed. I did terribly at school, and it DID impact on my life prospects. This just heightens my anxiety.

Its so encouraging to hear from teachers and parents whose children scored low CAT scores and went on to succeed. My own experiences just make me scared for him.

You might be better moving your child now to a more nurturing environment and spending your money on a 1-1 tutor who will boost his confidence.

I look after a SN child who scored in lowest 5 per cent in CAT test. He has a tutor 3 hours each week and loves learning and he is amazing as he is doing so well at school and in test the teachers are saying the think the previous test must be wrong as he is keeping up with his class mates. His test was done by end psych. He is however determined to do well at school. His tutor has been brilliant with him and given him do much confidence.

I don't know what CAT score is but just entering Y7 at my DC's crappy comp the head of year had data which predicted a full set of A and A*s for them. The prediction was only a slight underestimate in that they got a full house of A stars. To this day I don't know how they made that prediction. And in a way it was a dangerous one because it could easily have encouraged my DC to take their feet off the gas.

Some schools are pretty rotten for this type of thing. Weed out any child that doesn’t fit their criteria rather than teach the child. The school isn’t the right place for you.

When exactly are they expecting you to make the move?

Dd scored 98 and 101 in her CAT tests and got 2 x 9s, 5 x 8s and 3 x 7s at gcse and is predicted 3 x As at A level.

5s.and 6s at GCSE are fine! My older dd got mainly Cs and Bs at GCSE, did 2 x A levels and a BTEC, got into a good uni and finished year 1 with a 2.1

Our local private school has done this for years.

OP, somebody in your story is displaying shortcomings, and it's not your DS!

It seems to me that the teacher is probably failing to distinguish between being slow and being incapable of grasping concepts. A timed test will not allow you to tell if someone understands something in principle but they can't read and write quickly enough to perform well under time pressure.

Sir Roger Penrose, who has just been awarded the Nobel prize for Physics, was put down a class in maths when he was in primary school. He was doing badly, not because he didn't understand the ideas but because he was too slow. His teacher didn't appreciate the difference.

He was an extremely bright boy who turned into an extremely bright man. Nowadays he would probably have been diagnosed with a learning difference.

Why not have a look at some of the ideas your DS is supposed to know
with him and see if he actually does understand them? The teacher could very easily be underestimating his abilities because of the inherent limitations of timed testing.

My son got very low cat scores in year 7 , also dyslexic.

He’s in his final year at Uni with exams marks averaging a 1st.

Find a school that will be supportive - with the right help he will succeed.

@Ginfordinner

This thread doesn't show private education in a good light does it.

I moved from teaching in an inner city comprehensive to an elite, very expensive boarding school. I was shocked at how low the standards were. Not just in that school, but others I then came into contact with. Yes, there were some excellent opportunities, but there was a lot of reliance on how bright and motivated the students were. Standards of teaching are much better generally in the state sector.

My school up until recently had a list of staff qualifications on its website. One important department only took Oxbridge graduates to teach. Between them not one had a teaching qualification. Then one year they collectively misread the syllabus and taught the wrong subject. Teachers from the local comp were called into help. Parents went nuts. Management team fired. The department favour actually learning how to teach now.

@tinierclanger

“ The teacher gently informed me this means he'll not manage to achieve above a C grade in any subject at GCSE. He's only in year 5, and I'm amazed they can make such predictions. ”

Well of course they can’t. They’re just trying to bin him off for an easy life/keep their stats up, aren’t they?

They can

They know, for example, that a child who scores 80% in a test at 10, will still be getting similar results at 16.

There are exceptions, obviously, but the data they analyse is huge, and the predictions aren't far off in my experience.

(Have simplified my example)

Op I would look for a school that has a high population of pupils with SEN. They tend to be far more geared towards and capable of supporting children with even mild SEN than schools with low SEN numbers.

Sounds like the school can’t be bothered to make sure that the teaching enables him to learn. I would have a good look at their prospectus or website - it’s bound to say something like ‘helping all children to meet their full potential’/all children as individuals etc, and then ask the HT how this informs the advice given by the teacher.

Not sure I’d want my child at a school like that though, even if they were excelling academically.