Allowing a 17-year-old to drive - too much freedom?

[Breakupcharlie]

this is a reverse - I was going to do the whole thing of ‘my DD17 is paying for her own lessons but I think it will give her too much freedom’.

I grew up in a small village - it was two buses for well over an hour into town and then another one out for what would have been a ten minute drive to 6th form or work.

My mum said I wasn’t allowed to learn until after 6th form as she didn’t want it distracting me from my exams (I was on track for fairly good grades).

She admitted to me last weekend (6th form was ten years ago) that she said it would have gave me too much freedom and teenagers shouldn’t have that much freedom.

I can still remember waiting in the rain as my buses never aligned or I didn’t see my friends as the buses we’re a nightmare at the weekends. It’s really kind of bothered me and thinking it’s borderline abusive control?

It's not abuse OR borderline abuse - my parents never paid for me to learn to drive and we lived rurally with one bus a day to the town and one back. If you wanted to learn to drive, get a job and pay your way. I had to take buses into the nearest town (one a day each way so I was often sitting around in the library before and after work). C'est la vie. Driving is a privilege, not some kind of fundamental human right!

Maybe my opening statement I didn’t make it clear but it wasn’t because I was expecting my mum to pay for it (I think I did write I was paying for lessons). I had a job at 6th form as a weekend supervisor of a restaurant usually working between 15-20 hours a week as I never got a penny out of my mum from the age of about 15. From working from 15-17 I saved up a fair amount of money as I hated —nothing else to do in my little village— being cooped up. At the time I think I would have understood the argument of young drivers dying on the roads but maybe not as my older brother learnt at 17 (but that’s before my mum had a licence and needed us ferrying around). I think she did the argument of ‘such a waste on insurance’ which made me work even more and my uncle as a mechanic offered to help out hunt out a suitable care/do maintenance etc.

Maybe it’s because I had a huge chip on my shoulder at the time, it’s been raining a lot here seeing kids walking/waiting in the rain and my mum finally said it’s because she didn’t want a teen having that much freedom (randomly coming out of the blue that joined the dots).

@RincewindsHat I said in my opening post that I was paying for it.. she just didn’t want me learning to drive.

My ds’s friend was buried on results day. He was a passenger in a car driven by his 18 year old friend. We all live rurally. I hope my ds doesn’t get his test for a long time.

It was a very tactless way of putting it, but afraid I haven't got that much sympathy with the idea that teens shouldn't have to walk in the rain or wait at a bus stop.

We didn't have a car when I was a child and I coped. When my dc were teens, we did have a car but I can't drive and dh had a 6 hour daily commute so wasn't really up for offering lifts either. They went on the bus, also well over an hour, and it didn't occur to either of them to complain.

My ds’s friend was buried on results day. He was a passenger in a car driven by his 18 year old friend. We all live rurally. I hope my ds doesn’t get his test for a long time
Thats too far the other way. I paid for lessons, tests bought and insured cars for my two lads on their 17th birthday.
The reason was for one to help with his Cv. It did, the job he got needed a driving licence.
My second son went to college 38 miles away and had lessons at odd times and loads of extra curricular stuff that was relevant to the course that went on until 10 o'clock.
It worked for us.
My mum and dad wouldn't entertain the idea and I was at bus stops on wet windy nights in the winter same as every other 17 year old ( except for a couple of flash lads with rich parents who drove to school and everyone wanted to be them! (they had better cars than some of the teachers!) 🤣🤣

We live semi rural in small village, buses every 30 mins but used to be hourly. 3 out of 4 kids passed within 6 months of 17th birthday, other gave up of their own volition and passed as an adult. One left to learn but is only 15 at present. Luckily we have access to private space so dh taught them all how to move off and control a car before their birthdays

We live in a village with no public transport, a nightmare for teenagers. My feelings were that I didn't wNt my DC to hate their home. So we paid for driving lessons, they passed their tests at 17 and were insured on my car.
That gave them a little freedom but with that were very strict rules, no driviving with passengers for a long time, and then only in daytime. No driving to parties.
That meant we were still taxi drivers until they left for uni but they both had part time jobs they could get to and some freedom.

Parents who choose to live rurally should be accepting that their children are going to want to drive asap, so I think your Mum was completely out of order. Especially as you weren't expecting her to finance your lessons or car.

I don't enjoy DS1 and DD1 driving. It makes me nervous, but we chose to live rurally so obviously they were going to want to do that. It was down to us to make sure that over the years they realised how dangerous driving can be so that by the time they learned they were ready to take on the responsibility.

my older brother learnt at 17 (but that’s before my mum had a licence and needed us ferrying around).

Interesting. I was going to ask whether you thought you would have been allowed to drive if you had been male. I'd say nothing but if you have children, particularly girls, watch your mum like a hawk to stop her from passing on internalised sexism and make sure you don't accidentally subconsciously pass it on yourself.

We lived in a village and were encouraged to take lessons after our 17th birthdays. We shared an old banger for a few years. We could get to college and see our friends. We were sensible teens who didn't ever drive dangerously. No reason to restrict your teens freedom, just teach them to drive properly and to respect the rules of the road.

I grew up on a farm. I had lessons as soon as I was 17. I didn't have my own car until I finished uni at 22 so either drove my DM car or a landrover. This gave freedom with some conditions. No more than 1 passenger was one.
My dad's reasoning was that living rurally I needed to drive and that he would rather I drove myself than be driven by (unsuitable) boyfriends.

Of course it wasnt abusive. You could have got a job and saved up for lessons like I did. My parents couldn't afford lessons for me so I paid myself then brought my own car at 21. Hardly controlling to agree to lessons after you finished 6th form

Why are you so resentful 10 years later though Op?
You are an adult now,you can do what you want.
Why the emotive words like thinking it is bordering on abuse ( it really isn't. You need to know what goes on in our core group meetings when we discuss if we have enough evidence to raise a CIN case to child protection.)
What do you want to get out if this discussion to make you feel better. I dont think this thread will help. It sounds like you need therapy to put this case to rest..

I get that if you live rurally you may need a car. But the OP seems to think that having to wait at a bus stop is some kind of terrible ordeal for a 17yo. She talks emotively about how she feels when she sees children walking in the rain. I'm not keen on the common idea that the younger generation are snowflakes- but it's hard to know what else to make of this.

We are heading for a serious environmental crisis where we are going to have to completely rethink our attitude to driving. Yes, there will still be people who need to drive because there aren't any buses. But for young healthy people to be unable to wait at a bus stop- no I don't think that's an attitude we can afford.

My parents are 88 and live rurally. To get into town to see a doctor or whatever they need to take two ferries and two buses. As do all the other locals who are too old to drive (or as in my parents' case have lived a whole life without driving).

What sort of relationship do you have with your mum OP?

I think it's strange that you are obsessing over a parenting decision that your mum made 10 years ago . I also don't see how, if you were planning to pay for the lessons yourself , she could / would have physically stopped you . I also don't see how the reason she is now saying she didn't want you to learn is that much worse than the one she originally gave you .

I don't agree with your mum's POV but the whole thing is weird unless this is part of a much bigger picture .

Views on parenting of older teens vary tremendously . I don't know if you have ever read any threads about this on MN but I am equally shocked as to how controlling some people are of their teenagers lives , and how laissez-faire others are .

I learned to drive, and had my own car at 17.
My kids also learnt to drive and had their own cars at 17.
I don't see the problem.

I think the older generation were more of the worrying kind

This is an example of the casual ageist crap that gets trotted out on MN. The OP’s Mum is probably in her mid 50s, v early 60s. There are loads of current mums on this thread worrying about teen drivers. ‘The older generation’ (properly old) did all the pioneering stuff that gave us our freedoms. Don’t generalise.

OP: quite illogical that your Mum didn’t see your huge long journey as wasted time out from your studies, compared to a quicker drive.

I can understand any parent of any age having worrying about young drivers, but I am interpreting your Mums comment to mean that she wanted keep you at home, not able to meet friends, maybe boys, with your coming- home time dictated by the non existent bus or her willingness to pick you up.

In that case yes, she curtailed your teen years and YANBU to be resentful.

The fact your brother was allowed to learn at 17 makes your Mum's behaviour ridiculous.

Clearly what she meant was "teenage girls shouldn't have that much freedom" which is a ridiculous stance for a mother to take.

Driving is a life skill. It may be less vital in areas of the country where public transport is widely available, but that’s not the case in many rural areas.
It may also be a career for some people, or a requirement for a non-driving job.
Either way, for OPs mum to control her access to lessons is short sighted. That’s said, parents are dammed if they control their kids and dammed if they don’t. OPs mum has some strange double standards going on, but OP don’t let it control your life now.

But the brother was allowed because his mum couldn’t drive. Presumably there’s a biggish age gap. We do get more anxious as we age, it’s a known thing, not ageist, I was more anxious at 22 than 17. Although I’d argue parents now are more anxious than 30 plus years ago.

There must be more to the relationship to be feeling this way. Other ways your mother was controlling. Otherwise you’d consider it to be her worrying about your safety.

In your position I would have been able to go get lessons without my parents knowing. It was the cost of insurance (£1,000) that stopped it, plus being in a city and dad liked being a taxi weirdly.

@ShastaBeast

But the brother was allowed because his mum couldn’t drive. Presumably there’s a biggish age gap. We do get more anxious as we age, it’s a known thing, not ageist, I was more anxious at 22 than 17. Although I’d argue parents now are more anxious than 30 plus years ago.

There must be more to the relationship to be feeling this way. Other ways your mother was controlling. Otherwise you’d consider it to be her worrying about your safety.

In your position I would have been able to go get lessons without my parents knowing. It was the cost of insurance (£1,000) that stopped it, plus being in a city and dad liked being a taxi weirdly.

If it was just about not wanting her to drive then her mother being able to drive should have meant the OP could get dropped off places. It was very clearly, as the mother has now admitted, about controlling how much freedom the OP had and curtailing her teenage years.

Even on it's own it's controlling to say "I didn't want you to have the same amount of freedom as your brother". Which is basically what she's said.

Borderline abusive?????
Come on, it was a white lie because she was worried about you being able to drive at age 17. Not unusual for kids not to drive until they finish school. And I'm sure the thing about wanting you to focus on your exams was also true incidentally.

Driving is a life skill. It may be less vital in areas of the country where public transport is widely available, but that’s not the case in many rural areas.

Given the environmental crisis I would say non-driving is also a life skill. Being able to wait at a bus stop without feeling traumatised. Being able to walk through the rain without melting.

In the OPs case, it is clear that there wasn't a lack of public transport: there was a bus, she just felt it an affront that she should have to use it.

Yes, it can be a useful addition to one's CV. But since there was nothing to stop the OP from taking the test once she reached 18, she can hardly claim her life chances have been impacted foor good.